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Gender Ideology Harms Children

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
In the case of trans, there is absolutely no doubt that the overwhelming scientific evidence points towards it being a mental illness with no physical cure and modern society is only making things worse.
No, it is not a mental illness and none of the major psychological and psychiatric bodies say so. "Gender dysphoria" is really only listed in the DSM as a way for clinicians to diagnose and be able to provide care for trans people who experiencing strong dysphoria and who wish to hormonally and/or surgically transition. Dysphoria is when a person experiences strong distress and psychological tension over something. In the case of trans people, gender dysphoria is when we feel strong negative tension over our body not matching with how we perceive ourselves as gendered beings as well as over society not recognizing us as who we truly are. Basically, the dysphoria is the problem, not how we perceive ourselves. There's trans or androgynous-identified people who don't even really experience much dysphoria towards their body and don't wish to medically transition. We're not all the same.

The high suicide rate is mainly caused by how badly society treats trans people. We experience legal and financial difficulties, sexual and domestic violence, assault, unemployment and poverty at significantly higher rates than the general population, along with being rejected by family and friends and problems with romantic relationships. That's along with experiencing distress over our bodies not matching up with our psychological sex.

As for me, I'm a female to male transsexual and I've been on testosterone therapy for almost 2 years (the 2 year anniversary is on the 17th of this month, yay!) and have been living socially as a man for about 7 years now. I'm much happier in that area now than I was before.
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
Paul McHugh is a right-wing Catholic bigot who is more concerned with towing the line of the right-wing traditionalist wing of the Church than he is with people's health or science. He's basically for trans people what Paul Cameron was for gays in the '80s and '90s. Eventually, he will probably end up being professionally shamed and denounced just like Cameron has. Although he's so old, he'll probably die before that, most likely.

http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/paul-mchugh.html
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/06/10/3668041/paul-mchugh-transgender/
http://www.transadvocate.com/clingi...of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

I don't care what his religious beliefs are. He might even hate me for being a Muslim but on this matter, the truth is the truth. He has done nothing but mention facts and scientific results/studies. He has 100+ peer reviewed articles and written 6 books on the field. The man is an expert. I'm sure the smart folk at Johns Hopkins weren't hiring him because he was a Catholic. They hired him because he is very good at his job.

If you can't argue with the facts he has stated, go for it.

Also, it's not just McHugh, I used him as an example. A simple google search about the biological, psychological and scientific basis of trans will help you find more info on how bad it is to facilitate such an illness. Sadly, we as medical professionals can do nothing but nod and guide people towards sex change operations. That is all anyone is allowed to do these days.

It is a simple scientific fact that XX or XY makes you, physically, a woman or a man. Being of a physical sex, with the correct chromosomes is not, as stated in the OP as physical abnormality. Someone who has certain congenital, genetic disorders, does not give them a 3rd sex. They are either male or female with some traits from the opposite sex, which in some cases may be fixed, in others it can not.

Gender dysphoria however, is entirely different. It is a psychological condition and if you read up on case studies of people who have undergone sex change ops and the gender dysphoria they experienced before AND after, you will see that these people, in most cases (I have read literally 100s of such case studies) have severe trauma in their life. It ranged from abuse to neglect to sexual assaults and so on.

No one, of sound mind, would think that being born with a penis makes them a woman. It is an abnormal frame of mind which does so. And after research carried out both in the US and the UK, some 70% of children who experience gender dysphoria, spontaneously go back to "normal". In cases where they don't, psychological intervention, through therapy, helps many of the others to deal with underlying issues causing the dysphoria.

I repeat, society promoting and influencing such mental disorders makes things worse and is not helping these people. It is harming them. Just look at the stats on self harm ,prostitution and suicide. Their lives are made worse.
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
No, it is not a mental illness and none of the major psychological and psychiatric bodies say so. "Gender dysphoria" is really only listed in the DSM as a way for clinicians to diagnose and be able to provide care for trans people who experiencing strong dysphoria and who wish to hormonally and/or surgically transition. Dysphoria is when a person experiences strong distress and psychological tension over something. In the case of trans people, gender dysphoria is when we feel strong negative tension over our body not matching with how we perceive ourselves as gendered beings as well as over society not recognizing us as who we truly are. Basically, the dysphoria is the problem, not how we perceive ourselves. There's trans or androgynous-identified people who don't even really experience much dysphoria towards their body and don't wish to medically transition. We're not all the same.

The high suicide rate is mainly caused by how badly society treats trans people. We experience legal and financial difficulties, sexual and domestic violence, assault, unemployment and poverty at significantly higher rates than the general population, along with being rejected by family and friends and problems with romantic relationships. That's along with experiencing distress over our bodies not matching up with our psychological sex.

As for me, I'm a female to male transsexual and I've been on testosterone therapy for almost 2 years (the 2 year anniversary is on the 17th of this month, yay!) and have been living socially as a man for about 7 years now. I'm much happier in that area now than I was before.

It is no longer classified as a mental disorder because it is now being promoted as a viable life choice by various governments and powerful, corporate bodies. Same thing with many other aspects of life. The reality is, there is noway one can claim, if they have the "normal" genetic make up of XX or XY, to be anything other than their physical self.

Now, I'm happy that you have found some peace but it is clear the majority do not. But anyway, as a trans, especially someone having gone through the operation, you're not actually gonna agree with me so let's just agree to disagree.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
It is no longer classified as a mental disorder because it is now being promoted as a viable life choice by various governments and powerful, corporate bodies. Same thing with many other aspects of life. The reality is, there is noway one can claim, if they have the "normal" genetic make up of XX or XY, to be anything other than their physical self.
Homosexuality used to be classified as a mental disorder. My guess is you won't find a psychiatrist anywhere in the Western world that would proclaim that today. Homosexuality has been classified as a form of sexual expression for years now. Science is updated through the years when new information is discovered. I predict the same will happen with Gender Dysphoria and the abnormal mental health aspect will disappear too.

"Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe people who experience significant dysphoria (distress) with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth, may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones." Wikipedia
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
Homosexuality used to be classified as a mental disorder. My guess is you won't find a psychiatrist anywhere in the Western world that would proclaim that today. Homosexuality has been classified as a form of sexual expression for years now. Science is updated through the years when new information is discovered. I predict the same will happen with Gender Dysphoria and the abnormal mental health aspect will disappear too.

"Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe people who experience significant dysphoria (distress) with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth, may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones." Wikipedia

Wiki...really?

But anyway, you are right, that is what a lot of people say so now. But it does not factor in with reality. There is no genetic factor leading to gender dysphoria. I'm not sure if you have a background in science, I do. There is nothing in science which states a genetic basis, the same way that there is no genetic basis for homosexuality but some scientists try and claim there is. Scientists can be bought and sold to skew reality. But just look up the research yourself. Spend a few days reading around the topic.

But anyway, I don't want to keep going back and forth on this. Your opinion is your opinion, just ensure it is well informed.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Wiki...really?

But anyway, you are right, that is what a lot of people say so now. But it does not factor in with reality. There is no genetic factor leading to gender dysphoria. I'm not sure if you have a background in science, I do. There is nothing in science which states a genetic basis, the same way that there is no genetic basis for homosexuality but some scientists try and claim there is. Scientists can be bought and sold to skew reality. But just look up the research yourself. Spend a few days reading around the topic.

But anyway, I don't want to keep going back and forth on this. Your opinion is your opinion, just ensure it is well informed.
I don't see you supplying any sources other than paraphrasing some Catholic dude who's obviously going to have religious prejudices, most scientists don't have that handicap. I'm sure if we were back in the 1960's, you'd supply supposed 'scientific' proof that homosexuality was a mental disorder. Where are those people now?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
It is no longer classified as a mental disorder because it is now being promoted as a viable life choice by various governments and powerful, corporate bodies. Same thing with many other aspects of life. The reality is, there is noway one can claim, if they have the "normal" genetic make up of XX or XY, to be anything other than their physical self.
It wasn't really treated as a mental disorder since the famous sexologist, Magnus Hirschfeld, who coined the term "transsexual" in the '20s, started the process of scientifically differentiating between gays, transvestites and transsexuals and began helping trans people to medically (hormonally/surgically) transition in the '20s and '30s. Another doctor, Harry Benjamin, in the '50s, also helped in that area.

Biology doesn't agree with you when it comes to chromosomes and physical sex. Being intersex, for example, isn't really seen as a "birth defect" anymore, and that's for the better since it's now becoming more and more disdained to forcefully assign a sex to an infant or child when their genitals are "ambiguous" at birth. Now it's becoming more standard to leave the child alone and let them develop their own identity and make their own choices about their bodies in their lives. Many intersex people have had their lives ruined because they were forcefully surgically assigned a sex in their childhood that they didn't end up identifying with because doctors wanted to "normalize" them. There's many intersex people who are quite happy being "inbetween" and take pride in that, because that's really how nature created them.

Biologically speaking, physical sex, along with psychological sex, is a spectrum. There is no binary, even in terms of pure biology and physiology. What makes up a person's sex is a very complex interplay between chromosomes, hormones, the uterine environment, the effects of those things on brain development, etc. The best guess that science has for how people end up being transsexuals is that the brain of the child in the womb is flooded with the hormones that are "opposite" of their chromosomnal sex and it causes our brains to masculize or feminize in opposition to our primary sex characteristics. There's brain studies of transsexuals, even before cross-sex hormonal therapy, that shows that our brains are more alike the sex we identity as, rather than our genital sex. At the very least, our brain structures lie in an inbetween category.

One proof of this is digit ratio. For some reason, the index and ring fingers are effected by the level of androgens in the uterine environment. Males tend to have a longer ring finger than females do, and females tend to have ring and index fingers which are about equal in length. We're not sure why it happens, but it does. Anyway, transsexual women tend to have a female digit ratio (which means that their brains were exposed to less androgens in utero than a typical natal male) and transsexual men tend to have a male digit ratio (which means that our brains were exposed to more androgens in utero than a typical natal female). (I have a male digit ratio, by the way.)

So there's a spectrum of sex and gender, in reality. There's much, much grey in this area.

When it comes to psychiatry, it's not an exact science. Both psychology and psychiatry have a nasty habit of being unduly influenced by the social mores of the day. We can see that in the many disgusting abuses of those were struggling with mental health issues or were just "too different" to be acceptable by society, since the advent of those fields of study. Psychosurgery (most notably, lobotomy, which has destroyed thousands of lives and even killed people), the inhumane and torturous conditions of "lunatic" asylums and even some modern psychiatric hospitals, electroshock, aversion therapy, "reparative therapy", etc. You could even have your spinster, free-spirited aunt taken away by the men in white and locked up in a loony bin if you found her too socially "embarrassing" to your tastes, for quite a while before there were reforms due to activism on the behalf of those victimized by such a system. So psychiatry is not infallible. Thankfully, today's psychiatry tends to be much more humane and grounded in actual science than in decades past. They are moving forward.

Now, as for religion, it does matter here, unfortunately. The truth of the matter is that this disdain, disgust and outright hatred towards LGBT people and other groups does largely stem from Abrahamic religious mores, with its rather harsh binary view of reality. Despite what you seem to think, gender variance is nothing new. It is not some liberal government conspiracy to destroy the family or whatever. Most cultures in the world have had social space for people who are not clearly - in terms of a binary - designated, identify as or live as men/male or women/female. So you have concepts of third gender people and some cultures even had/have concepts of 4, 5 or more genders. Gender variant people tended to be viewed as gifted and blessed by the spirits and deities of those cultures. Being able to transverse boundaries of gender was seen as a great and powerful gift granted to spiritually advanced souls, who were more balanced and in tune with both their feminine and masculine aspects. They tended to perform important religious functions, functioning as priests and priestesses of revered deities. They were shamans, healers and oracles. Sometimes they were even kings, queens and emperors. There are even many Gods and Goddesses who are gender variant, switch genders, are androgynous, etc. and so gender non-conforming people could see themselves reflected in the Divine.

But Abrahamic religions had a different view of things. (Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism and some other religious currents have their share of the blame, too.) No more inbetweens, no more grey area. Everything's binary, everything black and white. God/creation, good/evil, God/Satan, pure/sinful, male/female, sacred/mundane, Heaven/Hell, salvation/damnation, etc. This is not how things were viewed for the majority of human history and in the majority of human societies. It is not an organic view of things. It had to be forced on most of the world that has been converted to it and, even then, it hasn't been able to completely wipe out the older, organic way of viewing the world.

So what we have here is really a return to normalcy in this area, when it comes to greater recognition of diversity in gender/sex and sexual orientation. The strict binary view is the abnormal, the aberration and the anomaly. The view of the matter as a rainbow or spectrum is much older than when some obscure Canaanite tribemen started hearing Yahweh dictating to them.

Now, I'm happy that you have found some peace but it is clear the majority do not. But anyway, as a trans, especially someone having gone through the operation, you're not actually gonna agree with me so let's just agree to disagree.
No, most trans people are just fine when we're treated respectfully, are afforded the same rights, protections and opportunities of the majority and we have access to appropriate health care. We're only a tragic people when hateful people force us into that role.

So now that a trans person presents their perspective, you want to cut and run? Figures. :rolleyes: FYI, I haven't had any surgeries. I'm just on testosterone therapy. I have no real desire for genital surgery as I actually enjoy my genitals, wish to have children someday and don't think that makes me "less" of a man (how scary and strange! :eek:). I would like to have chest reconstruction surgery eventually, but I'm in no rush.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
It wasn't really treated as a mental disorder since the famous sexologist, Magnus Hirschfeld, coined the "transsexual" in the '20s, started the process of scientifically differentiating between gays, transvestites and transsexuals and began helping trans people to medically (hormonally/surgically) transition in the '20s and '30s. Another doctor, Harry Benjamin, in the '50s, also helped in that area.

Biology doesn't agree with you when it comes to chromosomes and physical sex. Being intersex, for example, isn't really seen as a "birth defect" anymore, and that's for the better since it's now becoming more and more disdained to forcefully assign a sex to an infant or child when their genitals are "ambiguous" at birth. Now it's becoming more standard to leave the child alone and let them develop their own identity and make their own choices about their bodies in their lives. Many intersex people have had their lives ruined because they were forcefully surgically assigned a sex in their childhood that they didn't end up identifying with because doctors wanted to "normalize" them. There's many intersex people who are quite happy being "inbetween" and take pride in that, because that's really how nature created them.

Biologically speaking, physical sex, along with psychological sex, is a spectrum. There is no binary, even in terms of pure biology and physiology. What makes up a person's sex is a very complex interplay between chromosomes, hormones, the uterine environment, the effects of those things on brain development, etc. The best guess that science has for how people end up being transsexuals is that the brain of the child in the womb is flooded with the hormones that are "opposite" of their chromosomnal sex and it causes our brains to masculize or feminize in opposition to our primary sex characteristics. There's brain studies of transsexuals, even before cross-sex hormonal therapy, that shows that our brains are more alike the sex we identity as, rather than our genital sex. At the very least, our brain structures lay in an inbetween category.

One proof of this is digit ratio. For some reason, the index and ring fingers are effected by the level of androgens in the uterine environment. Males tend to have a longer ring finger than females do, and females tend to have ring and index fingers which are about equal in length. We're not such why it happens, but it does. Anyway, transsexual women tend to have a female digit ratio (which means that their brains were exposed to less androgens in utero than a typical natal male) and transsexual men tend to have a male digit ratio (which means that our brains were exposed to more androgens in utero than a typical natal female). (I have a male digit ratio, by the way.)

So there's a spectrum of sex and gender, in reality. There's much, much grey in this area.

When it comes to psychiatry, it's not an exact science. Both psychology and psychiatry have a nasty habit of being unduly influenced by the social mores of the day. We can see that in the many disgusting abuses of those were struggling with mental health issues or were just "too different" to be acceptable by society, since the advent of those fields of study. Psychosurgery (most notably, lobotomy, which has destroyed thousands of lives and even killed people), the inhumane and torturous conditions of "lunatic" asylums and even some modern psychiatric hospitals, electroshock, aversion therapy, "reparative therapy", etc. You could even have your spinster, free-spirited aunt taken away by the men in white and locked up in a loony bin if you found her too socially "embarrassing" to your tastes, for quite a while before there were reforms due to activism on the behalf of those victimized by such a system. So psychiatry is not infallible. Thankfully, today's psychiatry tends to be much more humane and grounded in actual science than in decades past. They are moving forward.

Now, as for religion, it does matter here, unfortunately. The truth of the matter is that this disdain, disgust and outright hatred towards LGBT people and other groups does largely stem from Abrahamic religious mores, with its rather harsh binary view of reality. Despite what you seem to think, gender variance is nothing new. It is not some liberal government conspiracy to destroy the family or whatever. Most cultures in the world have had social space for people who are not clearly - in terms of a binary - designated, identify as or live as men/male or women/female. So you have concepts of third gender people and some cultures even had concepts of 4, 5 or more genders. Gender variant people tended to be viewed as gifted and blessed by the spirits and deities of those cultures. Being able to transverse boundaries of gender was seen as a great and powerful gift granted to spiritually advanced souls, who were more balanced and in tune with both their feminine and masculine aspects. They tended to perform important religious functions, functioning as priests and priestesses of revered deities. They were shamans, healers and oracles. Sometimes they were even kings, queens and emperors. There are even many Gods and Goddesses who are gender variant, switch genders, are androgynous, etc. and so gender non-conforming people could see themselves reflected in the Divine.

But Abrahamic religions had a different view of things. (Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism and some other religious currents have their share of the blame, too.) No more inbetweens, no more grey area. Everything's binary, everything black and white. God/creation, good/evil, God/Satan, pure/sinful, male/female, sacred/mundane, Heaven/Hell, salvation/damnation, etc. This is not how things were viewed for the majority of human history and in the majority of human societies. It is not an organic view of things. It had to be forced on most of the world that has been converted to it and, even then, it hasn't been able to completely wipe out the older, organic way of viewing the world.

So what we have here is really a return to normalcy in this area, when it comes to greater recognition of diversity in gender/sex and sexual orientation. The strict binary view is the abnormal, the aberration and the anomaly. The view of the matter as a rainbow or spectrum is much older than when some obscure Canaanite tribemen started hearing Yahweh dictating to them.


No, most trans people are just fine when we're treated respectfully, are afforded the same rights, protections and opportunities of the majority and we have access to appropriate health care. We're only a tragic people when hateful people force us into that role.

So now that a trans person presents their perspective, you want to cut and run? Figures. :rolleyes: FYI, I haven't had any surgeries. I'm just on testosterone therapy. I have no real desire for genital surgery as I actually enjoy my genitals, wish to have children someday and don't think that makes me "less" of a man (how scary and strange! :eek:). I would like to have chest reconstruction surgery eventually, but I'm in no rush.
This deserves a thousand likes for being so well said.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Just to add: Transsexuals tend to feel psychological relief when we begin hormone therapy. (I know I did and do.) The best scientific guess as to why that is is because our brains were "running" on the wrong hormonal balance beforehand and are now functioning on the correct hormonal balance for our neurological setup.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
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Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
There is no genetic factor leading to gender dysphoria. I'm not sure if you have a background in science, I do. There is nothing in science which states a genetic basis, the same way that there is no genetic basis for homosexuality but some scientists try and claim there is.
That is patently untrue. Twin studies show that the likelihood of paired transgenderism is significantly higher among twins. This points to a genetic factor.

some Catholic dude who's obviously going to have religious prejudices, most scientists don't have that handicap.
That is most unfair.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html

A long read that goes into the reasons people were upset with the clinic, the reasons the clinic acted as it did, and how sometimes outright false accusations were used as part of a political maneuver to close a clinic that had helped hundreds of children over the years.
Zucker promotes a form of "reparative therapy" for gender non-conforming kids. The Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH), where he worked, has a long and dubious history in its handling of gender variant people. There's been a lot of abusiveness and downright nutty claims coming from the so-called "experts" there. It has a very bad reputation with trans people.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Kenneth_Zucker#Therapeutic_intervention_for_gender_variance
http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/kenneth-zucker.html
http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/centre-addiction-mental-health.html

Here's a couple of responses from trans women about that article:
https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/ab...cle-on-kenneth-zucker-8212506a2bf1#.i5hk2udqy
http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2016/02/placing-ken-zuckers-clinic-in.html

How to deal with gender variant kids is quite easy: Let them be who they are. If your male child enjoys playing with dolls. Let him. Let him wear dresses. If your female child likes playing with toy guns and to keep her short, etc., let her. Who is hurt in letting them be who they are? If it's just a "phase" for them, fine. If it's not, that's fine, too. It's like with Angelina Jolie's and Brad Pitt's kid, Shiloh, who likes to be called John and present as masculine. They're not stopping Shiloh from doing it and they seem fine.

If your kid gets bullied at school or whatever over it, it's not their fault. That's bullying and harassment and the person or people doing it need to be held responsible for it. The answer is not to force the child to be something they aren't. You could be setting them up for a lifetime of problems if you go that route.

So the problem is with society here. There's nothing wrong with those kids.
 
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No, most trans people are just fine when we're treated respectfully, are afforded the same rights, protections and opportunities of the majority and we have access to appropriate health care. We're only a tragic people when hateful people force us into that role.

Trans-people are 4 in 100,000 or 0.004% of the population which makes them completely much less of an issue than someone who is intersex in some way, at 1 in 100 births. Based on math, I think most of us know an intersex person and do not know a trans. :D

If paying for your health care includes hormones and cutting I do not think I can support that because we do not pay for everyone else's cosmetic surgery. If you want to dress as a man I think it hurts no if you live that way.

There are plenty of hateful comments coming from trans-people in these posts. I am left wondering how are you all doing in life with jobs and other things?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Trans-people are 4 in 100,000 or 0.004% of the population which makes them completely much less of an issue than someone who is intersex in some way, at 1 in 100 births. Based on math, I think most of us know an intersex person and do not know a trans. :D
What is your source for those statistics? They seem awfully wrong.
If paying for your health care includes hormones and cutting I do not think I can support that because we do not pay for everyone else's cosmetic surgery. If you want to dress as a man I think it hurts no if you live that way.
Hormonal therapy and sex-reassignment surgeries are not "cosmetic". They're more correctly categorized as corrective.

How I dress is really quite irrelevant, since I'm not a cross-dresser. My identity doesn't revolve around clothes.
There are plenty of hateful comments coming from trans-people in these posts. I am left wondering how are you all doing in life with jobs and other things?
Which hateful comments? And what does my personal life have to do with this thread?
 
What is your source for those statistics? They seem awfully wrong.

http://www.gendercentre.org.au/reso...rchived-articles/how-many-of-us-are-there.htm

I just worked the math from what they have shown, and I figure their data is more correct because they are trans-friendly in that country so there is no reason for trans to hide themselves from medical places.

I didn't mean to pry into your life, but I think if we understand you are living normally you can then make the case that trans itself is healthy. I would think there is no possibility of this being a mental condition if it could be shown that trans people are working jobs and having relationships like the rest of us. SoooOO, I was asking you this too because the rest of what I have seen was in the TL;DR and didn't do anything to convince anyone reading that you are, O.K. or that any other trans-person is, and showing it is the best way
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
http://www.gendercentre.org.au/reso...rchived-articles/how-many-of-us-are-there.htm

I just worked the math from what they have shown, and I figure their data is more correct because they are trans-friendly in that country so there is no reason for trans to hide themselves from medical places.
First off, there's really no way of knowing exactly how many trans people there are. A lot of us aren't out, a lot of us don't go to clinics or medically transition, a lot of are just quiet about it and so on. Plus, "trans-friendly" is relative. Places may have more liberal laws and protections for trans people, but that doesn't mean that the culture is trans-friendly. There's still social prejudices, for example. It's much the same as how we can't really know how many gay men, lesbians and bisexuals there are.

Also, right on the face of it, it seems rather ridiculous to say that there's more intersex people than trans people, especially with such ridiculously high and low estimates, respectively.

As for America:

"While it’s impossible to know exactly how many transgender people live in the U.S., the most commonly cited estimate is 700,000—more than the population of Washington, D.C. Most experts on the transgender community believe that the number is probably higher.

“If you're in a high school of 2,000 kids, you're probably going to have somewhere between two and four trans kids in that school at any one time,” says Dr. Norman Spack, the co-director of the gender management clinic at Boston Children's Hospital.

Dr. Johanna Olson, the medical director of the transgender clinic at Children's Hospital Los Angeles notes that it would be helpful for the government to collect data about the community. “What we really need is a census bureau question that says, ‘Does anyone in your household identify as a gender different than the one they were assigned at birth?’” says Olson. “And that would probably give us a better prevalence number and a more accurate reflection of the trans experience.”"
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/questions-answered-transgender-people/story?id=30570113
I didn't mean to pry into your life, but I think if we understand you are living normally you can then make the case that trans itself is healthy. I would think there is no possibility of this being a mental condition if it could be shown that trans people are working jobs and having relationships like the rest of us. SoooOO, I was asking you this too because the rest of what I have seen was in the TL;DR and didn't do anything to convince anyone reading that you are, O.K. or that any other trans-person is, and showing it is the best way
Are you serious? There's maybe about 3 trans people on this board that post regularly. We're not here to be subjects for a study and it's kind of offensive to insinuate that. The non-trans people on this board are more interested in it than we are. Usually someone makes a thread and then dumb comments are made so we have to come in and correct them (truthfully, it's really just me and @Shadow Wolf who even bother arguing, as trans people). There's peer-reviewed research and statements by the major scientific and health bodies that bear out that being trans, in of itself, is not a health issue. There are many trans people who are living normal lives, that have jobs, that are married, have children and so on. The only issues we have from being trans are dysphoria and the challenges that society throws at us.

I have problems in my life, but none of them really have anything to do with being trans, and those problems are quite irrelevant to this thread.
 
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First off, there's really no way of knowing exactly how many trans people there are. A lot of us aren't out, a lot of us don't go to clinics or medically transition, a lot of are just quiet about it and so on. Plus, "trans-friendly" is relative. Places may have more liberal laws and protections for trans people, but that doesn't mean that the culture is trans-friendly. There's still social prejudices, for example. It's much the same as how we can't really know how many gay men, lesbians and bisexuals there are.

Also, right on the face of it, it seems rather ridiculous to say that there's more intersex people than trans people, especially with such ridiculously high and low estimates, respectively.

As for America:

"While it’s impossible to know exactly how many transgender people live in the U.S., the most commonly cited estimate is 700,000—more than the population of Washington, D.C. Most experts on the transgender community believe that the number is probably higher.

“If you're in a high school of 2,000 kids, you're probably going to have somewhere between two and four trans kids in that school at any one time,” says Dr. Norman Spack, the co-director of the gender management clinic at Boston Children's Hospital.

Dr. Johanna Olson, the medical director of the transgender clinic at Children's Hospital Los Angeles notes that it would be helpful for the government to collect data about the community. “What we really need is a census bureau question that says, ‘Does anyone in your household identify as a gender different than the one they were assigned at birth?’” says Olson. “And that would probably give us a better prevalence number and a more accurate reflection of the trans experience.”"
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/questions-answered-transgender-people/story?id=30570113

Are you serious? There's maybe about 3 trans people on this board that post regularly. We're not here to be subjects for a study and it's kind of offensive to insinuate that. The non-trans people on this board are more interested in it than we are. Usually someone makes a thread and then dumb comments are made so we have to come in and correct them (truthfully, it's really just me and @Shadow Wolf who even bother arguing, as trans people). There's peer-reviewed research and statements by the major scientific and health bodies that bear out that being trans, in of itself, is not a health issue. There are many trans people who are living normal lives, that have jobs, that are married, have children and so on. The only issues we have from being trans are dysphoria and the challenges that society throws at us.

I have problems in my life, but none of them really have anything to do with being trans, and those problems are quite irrelevant to this thread.

I just thought you should know there are probably around 103 people on this forum that are trans, but a local massing of them doesn't mean they are more common. :D I do not trust American stats because on this issue it is way behind in acceptance. 4 in 100,000 are trans, 8 in 100,000 get hit by lightning! (I just thought this was funny!) :D Anyway, I am on the debate team at school and what you are doing is called anecdotal evidence, and statistical misrepresentation or sharpshooting. The question was about your lifestyle not about data and you are being evasive with me. Are you deceiving me or mis-representing the claims? That's what I've been trying to figure out! I cannot trust your facts, because I can't find them. News media isn't valid for a source, in general, for any debate. So, I have questions of your assertions and I decided that I will ask about _you_... Then you just dodge... You have absolutely no credibility.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
It is a simple scientific fact that XX or XY makes you, physically, a woman or a man. Being of a physical sex, with the correct chromosomes is not, as stated in the OP as physical abnormality. Someone who has certain congenital, genetic disorders, does not give them a 3rd sex. They are either male or female with some traits from the opposite sex, which in some cases may be fixed, in others it can not.
As I pointed out earlier in this thread XX or XY doesn't make you physically woman or man. Would you force people born with male organs and XX chromosomes to be women?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I just thought you should know there are probably around 103 people on this forum that are trans, but a local massing of them doesn't mean they are more common. :D I do not trust American stats because on this issue it is way behind in acceptance. 4 in 100,000 are trans, 8 in 100,000 get hit by lightning! (I just thought this was funny!) :D Anyway, I am on the debate team at school and what you are doing is called anecdotal evidence, and statistical misrepresentation or sharpshooting. The question was about your lifestyle not about data and you are being evasive with me. Are you deceiving me or mis-representing the claims? That's what I've been trying to figure out! I cannot trust your facts, because I can't find them. News media isn't valid for a source, in general, for any debate. So, I have questions of your assertions and I decided that I will ask about _you_... Then you just dodge... You have absolutely no credibility.
:rolleyes:

I didn't sign up for a ****ing study and I'm not going to talk to a 14 year old girl about my "lifestyle" (lol, wtf), as if it's any of your damn business in the first place. You're on the Internet, look up the information for yourself. Step down from your little pedestal and stop being so rude.
 
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