Force conversion is pointless

[Guy Threepwood]

I never understood why people have done that in recent times or in ancient times, where you are to convert to another religion or be punished. Let's just say that if they approached to you and say "You must be a Muslim or a Hindu or suffer the consequences. "Are you really going to convert to their ways? You may say openly that you will join their religion but in secret you'll still practice your religion anyway. That's one of the reasons certain adherents like the Jews survived for so long when Christians would force convert everyone and the Jews would say that they converted to Christianity but still secretly practiced Judaism. Shouldn't the people who force convert be smart enough that the forced converts aren't really converted and are still practicing it secretly? It always seemed pointless to me. I'd still practice Druidism either way.

The biggest example of this in history was Stalin, Mao, Il Sung etc attempting to convert millions to atheism. As you say it is difficult to oppress freedom of thought with those who had already experienced it, but growing up with it, you are not as exposed to free choice, it clearly had an impact in those countries where freedom and faith is returning, but still below normal levels

 

[Jumi]

I never understood why people have done that in recent times or in ancient times, where you are to convert to another religion or be punished. Let's just say that if they approached to you and say "You must be a Muslim or a Hindu or suffer the consequences. "Are you really going to convert to their ways? You may say openly that you will join their religion but in secret you'll still practice your religion anyway. That's one of the reasons certain adherents like the Jews survived for so long when Christians would force convert everyone and the Jews would say that they converted to Christianity but still secretly practiced Judaism. Shouldn't the people who force convert be smart enough that the forced converts aren't really converted and are still practicing it secretly? It always seemed pointless to me. I'd still practice Druidism either way.

I've said this before, but being a descendant of those force converted I would say that forced conversion works and is not pointless. It doesn't work immediately, but it does in the long run. It's unlikely that anyone but a few of the newly converted will have positive thoughts about it.

Most descendants of the force converted are blissfully ignorant of what happened to their ancestors or even considering what happened to them good in the long run. Part of that is that the new religion takes over the education system.

If you did follow your old ways, you would need to practice your druidism in secret. Maybe with death as punishment if you are caught or someone suspects you.

There is also the carrot for converting. They gain more opportunities and are less likely to be targets of whim.

 

[Jumi]

The biggest example of this in history was Stalin, Mao, Il Sung etc attempting to convert millions to atheism. As you say it is difficult to oppress freedom of thought with those who had already experienced it, but growing up with it, you are not as exposed to free choice, it clearly had an impact in those countries where freedom and faith is returning, but still below normal levels

Yes, it worked for them as much as it worked for Christianity in Europe.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I've said this before, but being a descendant of those force converted I would say that forced conversion works and is not pointless. It doesn't work immediately, but it does in the long run. It's unlikely that anyone but a few of the newly converted will have positive thoughts about it.

Most descendants of the force converted are blissfully ignorant of what happened to their ancestors or even considering what happened to them good in the long run. Part of that is that the new religion takes over the education system.

If you did follow your old ways, you would need to practice your druidism in secret. Maybe with death as punishment if you are caught or someone suspects you.

There is also the carrot for converting. They gain more opportunities and are less likely to be targets of whim.

It works with some people in the long run, otherwise Jews and Pagans in Europe probably wouldn't even be there, as they practiced in secret, which is what I would do if I was threatened to be converted. The odds of me having to practice it in secret is unlikely anyway unless I move to some intolerant country or this country becomes intolerant but I'll never be force converted anyway.

 

[Jumi]

It works with some people in the long run, otherwise Jews and Pagans in Europe probably wouldn't even be there, as they practiced in secret, which is what I would do if I was threatened to be converted. The odds of me having to practice it in secret is unlikely anyway unless I move to some intolerant country or this country becomes intolerant but I'll never be force converted anyway.

Well Jews were tolerated in that sense better than pagans, them being Abrahamics and they knew what the deal was instead of most pagans who didn't know why their statues were destroyed etc. Pagans were pretty much gone at the start of last century. Churches were still busy rooting out the last remnants.

 

[LuisDantas]

I never understood why people have done that in recent times or in ancient times, where you are to convert to another religion or be punished. Let's just say that if they approached to you and say "You must be a Muslim or a Hindu or suffer the consequences. "Are you really going to convert to their ways? You may say openly that you will join their religion but in secret you'll still practice your religion anyway. That's one of the reasons certain adherents like the Jews survived for so long when Christians would force convert everyone and the Jews would say that they converted to Christianity but still secretly practiced Judaism. Shouldn't the people who force convert be smart enough that the forced converts aren't really converted and are still practicing it secretly? It always seemed pointless to me. I'd still practice Druidism either way.

To the best of my understanding, forced conversion is an attempt at putting a respectable guise on acts of social control.

It is not always conscious, either. I have come to suspect that many people are literally unable of accepting differences of belief.

Some people seem to truly feel that their social roles requires them to assume or demand some specific stances of faith from those around them, to the point that they would feel puzzled, lost or even assume ill will and feel offended when faced with someone who disagrees openly.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Well Jews were tolerated in that sense better than pagans, them being Abrahamics and they knew what the deal was instead of most pagans who didn't know why their statues were destroyed etc. Pagans were pretty much gone at the start of last century. Churches were still busy rooting out the last remnants.

Pagans were still there and practiced but again it was secret. A lot of their culture was lost but not entirely. Jews were sometimes tolerated better but also treated worse as they were sometimes looked at as traitors of the faith, since Christians reached out to the Jews first and then turned to the Gentiles when Jews refused Christ.

 

[Jumi]

If you consider some population to have majority of pagans before forced conversion and less than a percent after a period of ten generations, I'd say it worked long term.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

But it isn't gone. If it truly was, we wouldn't have pagans today. You also have to consider some of the pagans that were actually converted as opposed to those pretended to be converted. They tried to destroy the idea, but ideas can't be destroyed.