Do dead people vote

[Pogo]

I don't think there are dead people voting these days. Even in Chicago it's a thing of the past.

But we could make it great again!

 

[Kathryn]

Did you get their permission first?

Ummmmmm, sort of. I was their executrix. Good times.

 

[Eddi]

I am asking if in the past have any dead people voted?

I should hope not

 

[Pogo]

I should hope not

I've never seen one in my time as an election inspector, but;

Man who dragged dead uncle to post office to collect his pension jailed

Shocking CCTV footage was shown in court of Haughney and Coakley dragging what was described by a witness as a lifeless and “grey coloured” Mr Doyle along the street and into the post office.

www.irishmirror.ie

who knows how many people have gotten away with this?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Simple. Because you are not using the technology you have. Or at least you are not using it properly.

But that is certainly not evidence that "dead people are voting", it is not evidence of some widespread problems with election security.

Hanlon's razor: Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence

Setting aside the fact that @We Never Know hasn't really given anything to substantiate how big a problem this might be, there's a side of this that has nothing to do with incompetence:

Accidentally taking someone living off the voter roles is a huge deal. In properly functioning democracies, there are lots of checks and processes to make sure this doesn't occur... and these checks take time.

Even if you have, say, an obituary for John Smith, 68, of Randomtown, NE... are you absolutely sure that there's only one John Smith, 68, of Randomtown, NE?

George Forman named all five of his sons "George". At one point, there were six George Formans all living at the same address. If one of them had died, would you be absolutely sure which one to remove from the voter rolls?

Any human process will be imperfect to some degree. Even if we reduce error as much as possible, it'll never be perfectly zero.

... which leads to the question: since we have to have error, what kind of error is preferable?

- the kind that disenfrancises living citizens, or
- the kind that might allow for a low rate of false votes (if a chain of other things happen, which might be controllable other ways)?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Technology ....

We can talk to Jose in Mexico, Robert in Italy, John in Austria in two seconds.

Yup. Amazing, isn't it?

We can be tracked by phone, gps, credit card etc at any given time.

More or less, but that because we let them do it and help them do it.

But with all that technology we don't know when a registered voter dies but still votes? I call BS"

When's the last time you've heard of a coprse ringing up the election board to say "hey, I'm dead now, think you can take me off the rolls?"

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wtf does that have to do with this? Are you saying the system is set up to cheat?

"Technology ....

We can talk to Jose in Mexico, Robert in Italy, John in Austria in two seconds.
We can be tracked by phone, gps, credit card etc at any given time.
But with all that technology we don't know when a registered voter dies but still votes? I call BS"

Please step through how you think our "technology" ought to tell us when a registered voter dies.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The votes of the dead don't count.
If there is a problem, they need to figure that out.
One vote from a dead person should void the whole election IMO. Because then it needs to be figured out how many other votes were casts from dead people.

The don't vote. Your "concerns" are having consequences.

Report Warns State Voter Purges Are a Growing Threat to Democracy | Common Dreams

"We are facing an unprecedented assault on voting rights in this country, and purges that erroneously target eligible voters for removal are part of the problem," said one campaigner.

www.commondreams.org

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/your-local-election-hq/26000-ohioans-purged-from-voter-rolls-how-to-check-if-you-were-affected/

COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH) — The Ohio Secretary of State purged more than 26,000 voters from voter rolls in September due to inactivity – over a sixth of whom came from Franklin County. Secretary of State Frank LaRose hasn’t announced the canceled voter registrations yet, but his office’s website has an updated database of purged voters. To see if your voter registration has been canceled, search the database here.

Take note where it says it wasn't announced.

 

[Pogo]

Please step through how you think our "technology" ought to tell us when a registered voter dies.

@We Never Know but the CIA could use their satellites to monitor the heartbeat of everybody in the US and then we know they can hack the voter roles so why aren't they doing it. They could even use their space lazers to zap the zombies as they walk into the polling places.

 

[Kathryn]

Doesn't anyone know that a death certificate, which is issued by the state, has the person's SS # on it?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Doesn't anyone know that a death certificate, which is issued by the state, has the person's SS # on it?

Okay and that correlates how with voting laws and laws about the cross usage of information?
I don't know and the impersion I get as a non-US is that you don't like to share information, because that could lead to Big Brother and the Evil Government.

 

[Kathryn]

Okay and that correlates how with voting laws and laws about the cross usage of information?
I don't know and the impersion I get as a non-US is that you don't like to share information, because that could lead to Big Brother and the Evil Government.

It correlates with the six George Foremans living at one address. Anyway, every death certificate I've ever seen has a spot for a SS #. And unfortunately I've seen quite a few from many different states.

 

[fantome profane]

Setting aside the fact that @We Never Know hasn't really given anything to substantiate how big a problem this might be, there's a side of this that has nothing to do with incompetence:

Accidentally taking someone living off the voter roles is a huge deal. In properly functioning democracies, there are lots of checks and processes to make sure this doesn't occur... and these checks take time.

Even if you have, say, an obituary for John Smith, 68, of Randomtown, NE... are you absolutely sure that there's only one John Smith, 68, of Randomtown, NE?

Not to mention:

List of prematurely reported obituaries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I agree, the numbers of fraudulent votes in the name of a dead person are so minuscule it is not worth the risk of disenfranchising a living voter.

But I do think there is one political party that is not so concerned about disenfranchising voters.

 

[We Never Know]

@We Never Know but the CIA could use their satellites to monitor the heartbeat of everybody in the US and then we know they can hack the voter roles so why aren't they doing it. They could even use their space lazers to zap the zombies as they walk into the polling places.

Some people believe that. Hope you aren't one.

 

[We Never Know]

I am asking if in the past have any dead people voted?

If yes which party was to blame/got their votes?

So did you all figure out yet if dead people have/do vote or has it been just finger pointing?

 

[We Never Know]

Setting aside the fact that @We Never Know hasn't really given anything to substantiate how big a problem this might be, there's a side of this that has nothing to do with incompetence:

Accidentally taking someone living off the voter roles is a huge deal. In properly functioning democracies, there are lots of checks and processes to make sure this doesn't occur... and these checks take time.

Even if you have, say, an obituary for John Smith, 68, of Randomtown, NE... are you absolutely sure that there's only one John Smith, 68, of Randomtown, NE?

George Forman named all five of his sons "George". At one point, there were six George Formans all living at the same address. If one of them had died, would you be absolutely sure which one to remove from the voter rolls?

Any human process will be imperfect to some degree. Even if we reduce error as much as possible, it'll never be perfectly zero.

... which leads to the question: since we have to have error, what kind of error is preferable?

- the kind that disenfrancises living citizens, or
- the kind that might allow for a low rate of false votes (if a chain of other things happen, which might be controllable other ways)?

"Setting aside the fact that @We Never Know hasn't really given anything to substantiate how big a problem this might be"

Exactly. I asked if it has/does happen.

 

[Shaul]

Yes, it has probably happened. Assuming a person mailed in an absentee ballot and subsequently expired before election day, then a genuinely dead person voted. However as a matter of the law that ballot would still be valid.

 

[fantome profane]

Exactly. I asked if it has/does happen.

You could just google it and find out.

This is a debate forum.

 

[McBell]

"Setting aside the fact that @We Never Know hasn't really given anything to substantiate how big a problem this might be"

Exactly. I asked if it has/does happen.

Apparently not much.
At least according to The Heritage Foundation voter fraud database that lists 25 cases of

Impersonation Fraud At The Polls​

Voting in the name of other legitimate voters and voters who have died, moved away, or lost their right to vote because they are felons, but remain registered.​

dating back to 2004.

Of course, not all of the 25 were someone voting for the dead:

Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

Explore a sampling of recent proven instances of election fraud from across the country. The database is intended to demonstrate the vulnerabilities in the election system and the many ways in which fraud is committed.

www.heritage.org

 

[We Never Know]

You could just google it and find out.

This is a debate forum.

Uh yeah. Its been debated for years.