Attacks On Israel Broaden Beyond Hamas

[Revoltingest]

I don't think those things are happening.

Of course.
Your view is popular among Christians & Jews.
This is why they happened & are still happening.

But for the sake of discussion, do you imagine that if all that occurred, Muslims would grant Israel peace?

It could.
Although under recent circumstances, it
will be a longer & bumpier path than had
it been implemented before.

I do not, not for a minute.

Of course.
Your view is popular among Christians & Jews.
This is why they happened & are still happening.

As I said, never perfect, but workable. And I'm with you, when it comes to there being no god.

Then whence cometh absolutely true morality?

The perfect is the enemy of the good. I think if we want peace, we must accept a few philosophical axioms.

As long as one knows axioms are personal opinions / values.

I understand relativism, I just think it's monumentally impractical.

To deny it is to believe in absolutely true morality.
That is dangerous because it shuts down the brain's
ability to see other sides....to change when useful.

 

[icehorse]

Note: I am not antisemitic. Judaism is a fine religious faith with beautiful customs and beliefs. I am just critical of Israel's response while also accepting that a Muslim state can also be capable of horrible imperialistic actions. That includes understanding that my own country that likes to cosplay as a religious state sometimes is very much responsible for some of the violence that occurs in the Middle East from our own imperialistic actions that involve killing innocent people.

I used to call myself an "anti-theist", which I still am. But I've broadened that description to "anti-dogmatist", which includes being anti-religion. That said, not all religions are equally problematic, and it seems obvious that from a world-wide perspective Islam is far, far, far more problematic than Judaism. (But again, IMO the world would be better off without either of them.)

PS: Nothing against cosplaying. Best word I could think of on a Sunday morning to describe a country founded as a secular state that uses terms like "One Nation Under God" and "In God We Trust" and has a history of using religion to subjugate other people.

Ha! I like your cosplay analogy

IMO there are other bits of dogma that are at least as damaging as religious dogma and perhaps more so. For example, I think that the idea that "healthy economies must grow endlessly" is probably more dangerous than religions. And I think it's fair to say that "endless growth" is in fact an article of faith that's held quite dogmatically.

BTW, I do NOT accept that capitalism can thrive only via endless growth.

 

[icehorse]

Your view is popular among Christians & Jews.

Later in your response you worry about "shutting down brains". I worry about this as well. But statements like yours above, obvious fallacy arguments, also shut down brains

It could.
Although under recent circumstances, it
will be a longer & bumpier path than had
it been implemented before.

I don't think Muslims will ever grant Israel peace, no matter what Israel does or does not do. It is baked into the core of Islam to kill Jews.

Then whence cometh absolutely true morality?

You offered the idea that we should avoid shutting down brains. Again, I agree. So strawman's like this one are examples of brain closers. As I've said several times now, I'm not claiming "absolutely true morality".

As long as one knows axioms are personal opinions / values.

I'm talking about axioms that 99% of unbrainwashed humans would agree with. For example, almost everyone would agree that it's "bad" to inflict suffering on others. So while you could say "oh, that's just your personal opinion and your personal values" seems misleading. Ideas like the golden rule - while not absolutely true from the relativists perspective - are essential for our continued survival.

So, if you're not committed to humanity's continued survival, that's a stance some people take, but just say so, and we can stop wasting each other's time.

But having conversed with you for over a decade now, I don't think that's really your stance

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It got worse with the new budget bill that was passed by the Senate.

• Israel is getting $3.3 billion from taxpayer dollars. Yay, love that... /s
• The UNRWA is defunded until March 25, 2025
• The Palestinian Authority (the government overseeing the West Bank) is defunded
• The UN Human Rights Council is defunded specifically because they are opposing the human rights violations by Israel of the Palestinian people.
• The US is defunding all UN agencies and international organizations if they aren't taking steps to combat "anti-Israel bias".
• The US is investigating the use of all US money to Gaza and the West Bank, but of course not the billions we send to Israel to kill Palestinians...
• Israel is also receiving $5,000,000 USD to "resettle refugees".
• The US Embassy is to remain in Jerusalem, no be moved back to Tel Aviv, which is a point of contention among Israelis and Palestinians.
• It's also been written that if Palestinians take Israel to the International Criminal Court - or even backs such a case brought forward - to be prosecuted for its war crimes, genocide, and oppression of their people, then they will not be recognized as a state by the United States nor receive any funding or aid. This is the equivalent of trying to block the Nuremberg Trials.

This bill was more an Israel Budget Bill, rather than a US budget bill...

 

[Revoltingest]

.....from a world-wide perspective Islam is far, far, far more problematic than Judaism. (But again, IMO the world would be better off without either of them.)

In a thread about Israel enduring violence in
reaction to oppression, to make it about
worldwide problems with Islam is deflection.

Ha! I like your cosplay analogy

IMO there are other bits of dogma that are at least as damaging as religious dogma and perhaps more so. For example, I think that the idea that "healthy economies must grow endlessly" is probably more dangerous than religions. And I think it's fair to say that "endless growth" is in fact an article of faith that's held quite dogmatically.

BTW, I do NOT accept that capitalism can thrive only via endless growth.

Off topic.

What I'm seeing in your posts is....
Defend Israel.
Blame Muslims.
Ignore contrary views.

 

[Revoltingest]

Later in your response you worry about "shutting down brains". I worry about this as well. But statements like yours above, obvious fallacy arguments, also shut down brains

I expect such automatic responses.
Pure islamophobia.

 

[icehorse]

In a thread about Israel enduring violence in
reaction to oppression, to make it about
worldwide problems with Islam is deflection.

I disagree with your opinion concerning the nature of this thread

Off topic.

Wasn't addressed to you.

What I'm seeing in your posts is....
Defend Israel.
Blame Muslims.
Ignore contrary views.

Too simplistic.
Too simplistic.
Not true, I'm not ignoring other's views, I simply disagree with some of them.

 

[icehorse]

I expect such automatic responses.
Pure islamophobia.

Another brain shutting utterance

 

[Revoltingest]

Another brain shutting utterance

I disagree with your opinion concerning the nature of this thread

Of course you do.
Anything to support Israel.

And woe unto any trans-women Muslims.

 

[icehorse]

Another brain shutting utterance

Of course you do.
Anything to support Israel.

And woe unto any trans-women Muslims.

Islamism is my concern. Why must you continue to misquote me?

 

[Revoltingest]

Islamism is my concern.

I know.

Why must you continue to misquote me?

Why must you say non-factual things?

 

[icehorse]

Why must you say non-factual things?

For example?

 

[Revoltingest]

For example?

I don't mis-quote you.
You falsely claim otherwise.
I use RF's quote function without changing
text, except to not quote all portions. This I
do without changing meaning or context.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I blame Islamists when they're the aggressors, which all over the world, is often.

I agree that some Muslims are peaceful, but they all follow a faith - by their own choice - that is not fundamentally peaceful.

As for your thoughts on provocation and your thoughts on Israel, I disagree and I don't either of us will change the other's mind on this point.

Exactly. I'm not going to pander to the stupid politically correct notion that Islam is entirely a religion of peace when the real world shows otherwise, employing entire Islamic governments involved in brutality and subjugation of countless people.

 

[icehorse]

I know.


Why must you say non-factual things?

I will ask again for you to provide an example of a "non-factual" thing. And perhaps I need to step back and ask you to define what you mean when you say "non-factual"? Because of course in normal conversation people say things are not factual claims.

But I think I'm safe to conclude that your comment was meant as a criticism, so I'm asking you to defend your criticism.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

employing entire Islamic governments involved in brutality and subjugation of countless people.

And what about the 30,000 that have been ruthlessly bombed, and the 13,000 who now face starvation (or perhaps have already starved) at the hands of Israel's genocide?

 

[Revoltingest]

I will ask again for you to provide an example of a "non-factual" thing.

You asked a loaded question.
"Why must you say non-factual things?"
Your premise is false.

 

[icehorse]

You asked a loaded question.
"Why must you say non-factual things?"
Your premise is false.

hahaha

You made a claim, back it up, ffs.

 

[Revoltingest]

You made a claim, back it up, ffs.

I did.
Read better.

 

[icehorse]

I did.
Read better.

i've reached my daily limit of how many bad arguments of yours I can handle, ciao.