Are there Homo neanderthalensis in Heaven?

[MikeF]

This question struck me while reading another thread:

For those that ascribe to a belief in some sort of Heaven, I was curious if your concept of Heaven is open to all species of human being, or if it is limited to your specific species. If your version of Heaven is open to all human species, does it also include non-human species? If it includes other non-human species, is there a cut-off? How low down the evolutionary tree do you go?

 

[Erebus]

Any heaven that only admits humans is just hell with a fake moustache.

Have you spent much time around humans? They suck.

 

[MikeF]

Any heaven that only admits humans is just hell with a fake moustache.

Have you spent much time around humans? They suck.

Some can suck, certainly. Many others can be quite delightful. Perhaps those that are sucky humans wouldn't be allowed into heaven. Could there have been non-sucky Neanderthals?

 

[Colt]

This question struck me while reading another thread:

For those that ascribe to a belief in some sort of Heaven, I was curious if your concept of Heaven is open to all species of human being, or if it is limited to your specific species. If your version of Heaven is open to all human species, does it also include non-human species? If it includes other non-human species, is there a cut-off? How low down the evolutionary tree do you go?

It's doubtful that many if any of the Neanderthals had "faith" in the unseen God. The birth of faith in the spirit born mind is the prerequisite for growth of a survivable soul.

 

[Erebus]

Some can suck, certainly. Many others can be quite delightful. Perhaps those that are sucky humans wouldn't be allowed into heaven. Could there have been non-sucky Neanderthals?

I live in rural England. I promise you that Neanderthals suck too

 

[MikeF]

It's doubtful that many if any of the Neanderthals had "faith" in the unseen God. The birth of faith in the spirit born mind is the prerequisite for growth of a survivable soul.

Why put the word 'faith' in quotes? How should I interpret the meaning of its use when you do that?

I assume by your answer that you believe in the concept of a Heaven. Correct me if I am wrong, but at least one criteria for access to your concept of Heaven is to have knowledge of your concept of "the unseen God". Is that correct? So any human of any species throughout history has been precluded from your concept of Heaven if they did not have knowledge of "the unseen God"?

 

[Colt]

Why put the word 'faith' in quotes? How should I interpret the meaning of its use when you do that?

I assume by your answer that you believe in the concept of a Heaven. Correct me if I am wrong, but at least one criteria for access to your concept of Heaven is to have knowledge of your concept of "the unseen God". Is that correct? So any human of any species throughout history has been precluded from your concept of Heaven if they did not have knowledge of "the unseen God"?

Faith is the requirement for salvation. Faith is an inexplicable reality in the human heart of spirit born children of God.

Not every acorn becomes a tree, not every human is resurrected in the next life.

 

[MikeF]

Faith is the requirement for salvation. Faith is an inexplicable reality in the human heart of spirit born children of God.

Not every acorn becomes a tree, not every human is resurrected in the next life.

What happens to those who are not resurrected in the next life (which I assume "next life"constitutes "Heaven")? Do they simply cease to exist? And I guess by they, I assume it is any and all lifeforms that do not posses your concept of "Faith", yes?

 

[Colt]

What happens to those who are not resurrected in the next life (which I assume "next life"constitutes "Heaven")? Do they simply cease to exist? And I guess by they, I assume it is any and all lifeforms that do not posses your concept of "Faith", yes?

Yes, like a drop of water falling back into the ocean. The unsaved cease to exist as a personality or identity.

 

[MikeF]

Yes, like a drop of water falling back into the ocean. The unsaved cease to exist as a personality or identity.

Interesting. No hell or purgatory then in this system that contrasts with Heaven?

How do those who know or have knowledge of "the unseen God" and consequently establish a "Faith" in "the unseen God" and access to an afterlife, aquire that knowledge?

 

[Colt]

Interesting. No hell or purgatory then in this system that contrasts with Heaven?

How do those who know or have knowledge of "the unseen God" and consequently establish a "Faith" in "the unseen God" and access to an afterlife, aquire that knowledge?

All sincere seekers of God can find God in spirit. As for the afterlife we are at the mercy of revelation.

Hells and purgatory are a primitive invention of shamans and holy men. The belief in hells persist in some corners of evolved religion.

 

[Hamilton]

This question struck me while reading another thread:

For those that ascribe to a belief in some sort of Heaven, I was curious if your concept of Heaven is open to all species of human being, or if it is limited to your specific species. If your version of Heaven is open to all human species, does it also include non-human species? If it includes other non-human species, is there a cut-off? How low down the evolutionary tree do you go?

Neanderthals, cro-magnon, denisovan. The modern world is a mix of those 3, and possibly others. I vote to allow them all.

Many religions attribute a spirit to all living entities, Mormonism even to bacteria, rocks, planets, and stars. I suspect only humans have individual spirits, but I would be just as happy if other critters do, too.

 

[MikeF]

All sincere seekers of God can find God in spirit. As for the afterlife we are at the mercy of revelation.

Hells and purgatory are a primitive invention of shamans and holy men. The belief in hells persist in some corners of evolved religion.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sincere seekers of God". If one has no concept of "the unseen God", how is one to seek it? Take for example a Pacific island culture that is either Animistic in belief or Polytheistic and has not yet been exposed to Western thought or culture. What would compell such persons to seek a particular thing of which they can have no concept? What is to inform them that there is something (which they are currently unaware of) to be found, and in addition, such a thing is contrary and conflicts with what they already believe and conceive of the world?

 

[MikeF]

Neanderthals, cro-magnon, denisovan. The modern world is a mix of those 3, and possibly others. I vote to allow them all.

Many religions attribute a spirit to all living entities, Mormonism even to bacteria, rocks, planets, and stars. I suspect only humans have individual spirits, but I would be just as happy if other critters do, too.

I think that's great that you would vote to be quite broadly inclusive. I take it from your comments that you do not make specific claims as to who may actually be in your concept of Heaven, if you have one.

 

[Colt]

I'm not sure what you mean by "sincere seekers of God". If one has no concept of "the unseen God", how is one to seek it? Take for example a Pacific island culture that is either Animistic in belief or Polytheistic and has not yet been exposed to Western thought or culture. What would compell such persons to seek a particular thing of which they can have no concept? What is to inform them that there is something (which they are currently unaware of) is to be found, and in addition, such a thing is contrary and conflicts with what they already believe and conceive of the world?

Seekers of God create concepts to seek. One may have a vague idea of origins, of a creator, so they conceptualize what they seek.

God doesn't care what we call him, he just wants us to call him.

 

[King Phenomenon]

All living things are chillin in heaven together

 

[MikeF]

Seekers of God create concepts to seek. One may have a vague idea of origins, of a creator, so they conceptualize what they seek.

God doesn't care what we call him, he just wants us to call him.

I am not sure if your concept is broadly increasing access to your concept of Heaven, or making it an even narrower and selective club. If the Animists are happily communing with, and appeasing their concept of the Spirits of objects and animals, does this qualify as seeking and having Faith in "the unseen God", and as such, the Animist has access to your concept of Heaven? If the polytheist see multiple "Gods" that affect life on earth and interact with each other, does "the unseen God" interpret this as having found "the unseen God" and having Faith in it?

 

[ChristineM]

It's doubtful that many if any of the Neanderthals had "faith" in the unseen God. The birth of faith in the spirit born mind is the prerequisite for growth of a survivable soul.

Neaderthals had ritual buriels with burial goods thousands of years before early modern humans found their way to Europe showing some sort of belief in after death.

 

[Erebus]

Neaderthals had ritual buriels with burial goods thousands of years before early modern humans found their way to Europe showing some sort of belief in after death.

This is one of those situations where I miss the old informative frubal.

 

[MikeF]

Neaderthals had ritual buriels with burial goods thousands of years before early modern humans found their way to Europe showing some sort of belief in after death.

*Informative*