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AI music getting much better
- Thread starter Nimos
- Start date
That's the problem.
That sort of thing should be decided before not after it's common place usage.
I'm not naive to think it will go away. But also not naive enough to think it will be ultimately beneficial.
Our "discovery" of fire wasn't beneficial either imo.
We Never Know
No Slack
Without fire we would still be in the stone ages IMO.
I'm ok with this. It was better for everything else.
We Never Know
No Slack
I was just fixing to edit my post. Are we, other species and earth better off since the stone ages?
Us yes, everything else..no.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
From what I've read and heard it is a very long ways from being great. Rubbish pop that's meant to be fad today, forgotten tomorrow should be scared, but AI isn't us and thus I do not believe it can be as good as our best when it comes to art. That takes the "human soul" it will never have.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
When it comes to the creative process I am not impressed with AI. The songs are souless and moving, the writing without spark and feeling, the art like a cheap paint shop afternoon job.
We need real connections to heal the madness, not technology that further separates us.
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
I'm having great fun using udio.com.
Just finished my first album! Bit of bhangra, bit of ambient, bit of American soft rock and a whole slab of djent. Woo hoo!
Just finished my first album! Bit of bhangra, bit of ambient, bit of American soft rock and a whole slab of djent. Woo hoo!
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
Sounds a lot like Udio.com.You just go here:
Suno
And then login with your google account that is easiest.
There is a create button that you can click. And then you can even get it to generate random lyrics and random style.
If you want to create a whole song, I just go here: Chatgpt login the same way with google, and then you just tell it to write a song and what you want it to be about
This is an example from my ChatGPT:
View attachment 91204
You just write to it like you would a human. And then you just copy paste the lyrics it create into the Suno lyrics field and press create
(Both are free)
Suno uses a credit system so you get some free credits every day or something.
You get a load of free monthly credit.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
I fully understand what you are saying. But to me, I would compare it to that of the electricity. It's such a huge discovery or development that impacts the whole world.
So it would be like having to sort out whether we should use electricity or not and what we could use it for on a global scale, there is no chance of anyone coming to an agreement, the potential in electricity is too huge and the same with AI.
Even if the US and EU and other countries could come to some agreement, other countries could simply not care. China as we know doesn't look the same on copyright as people do in the West, so why should they care about whatever rule the US and EU want? China like everyone else sees the potential as well and already has some very good AIs and robotics.
And I fully understand China, if they don't agree with whatever copyright laws we have in West, why would they care about them? Why not simply push as hard as possible to make the best AI they can while the West stumbles around in laws and regulations etc.
I also think everyone knows that the governments of all countries are not going to comply with whatever rules, they will develop these in the shadows, which they probably already do. I don't see how you could even reach common ground regarding this. Think about it, we are literally destroying the planet's climate and even that isn't enough for governments to come to any useful agreements.
Sure it can negatively impact humans, but honestly I think it will impact everyone eventually. Right now the focus is just on the artists because it is a very visible area. Whereas, someone getting replaced by AI working in support, or the programmer, or the factory worker getting replaced by a robot, is simply not all that interesting.
Amazon.com Inc. is rapidly advancing its use of robotics, deploying over 750,000 robots to work alongside its employees. The world's second-largest private employer employs 1.5 million people. While that's a lot, it's a decrease of over 100,000 employees from the 1.6 million workers it had in 2021
You don't hear any people mentioning this or that it is even an issue, simply because it is not all that visible.
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Nimos
Well-Known Member
Maybe, I think it depends.
Obviously, the technology is still under development. And as I wrote in the OP, it has only been like 4-6 months I think between the first song and this one. Also, keep in mind that I don't have any musical background, and the whole song was created in like 30 minutes, which includes a lot of time of me just fiddling around with it, given I haven't really used this program a lot.
So it would be interesting to see a musician use it to create the base for a song and then manipulate it using whatever experience and tools they use and then see what could come out of it.
Also, I just did this for a test, which is why the ending is pretty abrupt. Also, I think one would have to make a blind test, where people don't know whether it was AI-generated or not. Because a lot of people will hate anything AI-related, doesn't matter what it is.
But that would require freshly created songs that people couldn't Google or that didn't give away whether they were one or the other.
Sure music has soul, but only when you know it is human, how many songs don't we hear on the radio or whatever, where we have no clue who the person is behind it and we don't bother thinking about that either. Also a lot of music simply doesn't appeal to us, some like heavy metal, others pop etc. And even within these genres, some we like and some we don't.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Just looked at Udio and yeah it seems exactly like that. Even color schemes etc. look very much like Suno, maybe it is even the same company behind it, have no clue.
Remove? No. Cheapen? Perhaps.
I greatly enjoy the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. It's not just what I hear; I can (and do) access the audio any time I wish via Spotify and YouTube. It's appreciating
- the genius of the composers,
- the art, skill, and dedication, of those who have crafted the instruments and those who play them,
- the mastery of the conductors,
I would hate to see this trivialized.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
It will ruin certain jobs across the board, not only within art but everywhere, that's for sure.
But I honestly think that artists despite being a hot topic now are probably those that will get out on top in the end, exactly for the same reason as you say. I think most people prefer real musicians and artists. On the other side there are AI influencers now with millions of followers so who knows? Maybe that will become a new trend that people will be fans of AI "artists", the world is insane enough for that to happen I think.
Where I see the artist having a benefit is because they are creative. Those that will be hurt the most I think are those that ain't, if you work a support job and are replaced by AI, there is a good chance that you will be replaced again very soon by another AI. At least the artists have the creativity to perform their craft and create art regardless of AI. And in general, I think people prefer to know that there is an actual human artist behind something. Obviously, if you are just making a random poster for the wall it might be less important.
But those jobs that will vanish quickly I think are the jobs where you just perform tasks that others have decided. And also I don't think it will be the average person that will ruin things, but actually the companies themselves in search of profit.
People like me who use these programs for fun aren't an issue as I see it, it's when the big companies start to integrate them into workflows and people get replaced, that when the **** hits the fan for real, at the moment it is still in the early infancy when it comes to integrating AI, but once that nut has been cracked I think it will go very fast.
They did a Survey:
The headline stat is very plain, and underlines how common AI use in the workplace has already become: 66 percent of the managers who answered Beautiful's survey said they're using AI at work to boost worker productivity. More concerningly, 12 percent said their use of AI was undertaken with a goal of downsizing and cutting labor costs. In fact, 41 percent said they thought they'd be able to replace staff with "cheaper AI tools" this year, and 48 percent were clear that the company could save a lot of cash by replacing a "large number" of staff this year. Four in 10 managers said they thought their teams could lose multiple members, replace them with AI, and operate just as well.
These are what will eventually happen on a large scale, and those people who are not creative, unlike artists are going to struggle a lot more I think.
I must be doing a very poor job conveying source of my concern, because you insist on disregarding it -- and doing so at length.
Parenthetically, prior to retirement I worked for over four decades in software development. I am not at all ignorant of the interplay between technology destroying jobs and technology birthing a multitude of job possibilities.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
I don't think I disregard what you are saying in any way. What makes you think I do?
PureX
Veteran Member
I think it only exemplifies how systemic and banal and manufactured-for-profit popular music has become. The same dozen writers are writing the lyrics for almost every pop song that comes out, regardless of the supposed "artist" singing it. And as for their singing, that, too, is all auto tuned and pitch corrected by machines. And pre-recorded for big show. And it's all so devoid of soul and creativity that they have to throw in lots of nearly naked dancers and big theatrical staging just to give the audiences something to show up for.
But AI will never be able to create any real art. All it will ever be able to do is mimic the creative accomplishments that have already happened, and rearrange the parts. And of course the fools will be fooled, just as they are being fooled now by the manufactured Disney pop idols and the regurgitated schlock they call music, and that the fools pay a small fortune to go see 'performed' (actually all pre-recorded backing tracks) that the performers pretend to sing to, like the mechanical dancing monkeys that they are.
Money, money, money, makes the world go round.
But AI will never be able to create any real art. All it will ever be able to do is mimic the creative accomplishments that have already happened, and rearrange the parts. And of course the fools will be fooled, just as they are being fooled now by the manufactured Disney pop idols and the regurgitated schlock they call music, and that the fools pay a small fortune to go see 'performed' (actually all pre-recorded backing tracks) that the performers pretend to sing to, like the mechanical dancing monkeys that they are.
Money, money, money, makes the world go round.
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Nimos
Well-Known Member
Sorry don't get your point, how is that disregarding what you wrote?
I would hate it as well, but my point is that you can't trivialize art, because each piece whether music or a painting etc. is based on someone's ideas. AI might create its own stuff, but it doesn't ruin an artist's work.
For instance, the song I told it to make, didn't take away anything from any musician who wanted to make their own song based on whatever idea they might have.
When I say that jobs will be lost, it might be the ones where a musician has to make a jingle for something, a piece of music for a game or a commercial etc.
But that musician might still create beautiful music that you care to listen to.
Also, artists use inspiration, so even musicians and artists can use AI for inspiration and a lot probably already do. You can use Suno, just to create music without lyrics, so even if you as a musician don't like the final product it makes, there might be part of it that you think is cool or that you can use for inspiration. People who draw constantly use inspiration from other things as well.
The biggest issue is that no one knows where this will end up or how it is going to be used.
Im not saying it is particularly good or bad I have no clue, but one thing is for certain, and that is that it is being developed with insane speed.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Agree that is what I have heard as well, that the music industry is a hardcore business it is not as "free-spirited" as many might think it is. But again, would need someone with more knowledge to confirm that.
Whether AI can create art or not depends on what people define as art.
If you take something like this:
And it is not to take away from her at all, but honestly how much control or "greater" vision is involved here? But if it looks cool in the end does it matter?
Artist's **** (Italian: Merda d'artista) is a 1961 anti-artwork by the Italian artist Piero Manzoni. The work consists of 90 tin cans, each reportedly filled with 30 grams (1.1 oz) of feces
Is that any better? Yet this piece of "****" is considered art.
The song the AI created is unique and obviously, it created it effortlessly with my guidance, given it doesn't do anything on its own, even if my involvement is minor, it is however still unique.
If anything that is just weird is considered art, because the person who created it thinks it is, then AI music and images, videos ought to be as well, despite barely any human involvement.
Art is some weird stuff, to be honest.