Islam fights free speech

[Notanumber]

for "boys and girls can't speak to each other " You can't force the Muslims to behave like non-Muslims.so inverse is correct.

I mean forbidden and not forbiden had no relate to this "Islam fights free speech".

I have allowed to openly question to my religion. I do think most of Muslims are capable too.

I do believe free speech could be harm even in West, and unacceptable sometimes.especially by individuals, that would cause serious harassement problem.


Muslim Woman Abused by Crowd, Kicked Out of Donald Trump Rally Interviewed by CNN

I watched your video with interest and have a few obvious points to make.

She said she wanted people to see that Muslims are not that scary. That depends on where and when you meet them.

She also said that she did not feel threatened even thought she was openly displaying her religion. I wonder if I could say the same if, I attended a meeting of Political Islam and openly displayed my religion.

Her T-shirt said ‘Salam I come in peace’ and she stated that Islam is a peaceful religion. I don’t know how she could say that while keeping a straight face.

Wearing the yellow star was an insult to Jews and the Holocaust. Jews were forced to wear the star by the Nazis similar to how Islam treats Dhimmis and forces them to pay the jizya.

I presume she is satisfied that she got the reaction and the publicity that she hoped for without risking her personal safety.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

for "boys and girls can't speak to each other " You can't force the Muslims to behave like non-Muslims.so inverse is correct.

It's part of our culture for men & women to mix so just as non-Muslims must adapt to the cultural norms of Muslim societies, Muslims must do the same. Also, this refusal to let boys & girls mix is damaging because it does not prepare the children for adult life when people of both sexes will invariably mix. By dividing them at an early age, the school's authorities are perpetuating division & social stratification based on sex which is immoral, and preventing children from mixing which could lead them to challenge the Islamic norms they have been brought up in.

I have allowed to openly question to my religion. I do think most of Muslims are capable too.

The difference being that children have a tendency to ask awkward or inconvenient questions - questions an adult would probably refrain from asking because they're conditioned to not challenge social norms.

 

[Godobeyer]

I watched your video with interest and have a few obvious points to make.

She said she wanted people to see that Muslims are not that scary. That depends on where and when you meet them.

She also said that she did not feel threatened even thought she was openly displaying her religion. I wonder if I could say the same if, I attended a meeting of Political Islam and openly displayed my religion.

Her T-shirt said ‘Salam I come in peace’ and she stated that Islam is a peaceful religion. I don’t know how she could say that while keeping a straight face.

Wearing the yellow star was an insult to Jews and the Holocaust. Jews were forced to wear the star by the Nazis similar to how Islam treats Dhimmis and forces them to pay the jizya.

I presume she is satisfied that she got the reaction and the publicity that she hoped for without risking her personal safety.

No it's was not mean to insult , she intentionnally pointed to that (Racist). when Trump decide to treat the Muslims in America,as Nazi treat the Jews by put star of David(pbuh).

please watch this prank
Forcing MUSLIMS to Wear Badges

So you agree that she kicked out ?
So where is the freedom of speech in that ,is not hypocrisy (double stand) to demand something from others and you doing it in other hand?

 

[Godobeyer]

It's part of our culture for men & women to mix so just as non-Muslims must adapt to the cultural norms of Muslim societies, Muslims must do the same. Also, this refusal to let boys & girls mix is damaging because it does not prepare the children for adult life when people of both sexes will invariably mix. By dividing them at an early age, the school's authorities are perpetuating division & social stratification based on sex which is immoral, and preventing children from mixing which could lead them to challenge the Islamic norms they have been brought up in.

Culture are different and traditions , so you can't force people to follow specific way of life.
So you can't may hunt cows in India,so go on
same to nuns or preists you can't force them to marry each other.its religion and tradition way of life.simply its just disagreement.

The difference being that children have a tendency to ask awkward or inconvenient questions - questions an adult would probably refrain from asking because they're conditioned to not challenge social norms.

Children are just young,I personally talked to girls even in university with respect, we are able to discuss any question about religion or life.

I do believe my country is very close to be an ideal freedom of speech in Muslim world.
I speak (as you notice) we all freedom even in Facebook in Arabic,I post many article or images criticize ISIS or some scholars or our government.

This thread accuse Islam and ALL Muslims that's annoying me. because it's clearly generalizing.

 

[YmirGF]

Godo, if you're referring to me, you're just wrong. It's true that I often attack Islam. But I also attack Christianity, and I attack a lot of other *ideas* too.

Ah, so you are an equal opportunity "hater".

 

[Akivah]

So you agree that she kicked out ?
So where is the freedom of speech in that ,is not hypocrisy (double stand) to demand something from others and you doing it in other hand?

You are confusing the action with the reaction. This woman made her speech and she was free to do so. The place she made it was a private event, so the people in charge are allowed to react to her actions and ask her to leave. The woman wasn't arrested for speaking, nor is there as fatwa calling for her death, like what would have happened if someone did something similar in a Muslim majority country.

 

[Godobeyer]

You are confusing the action with the reaction. This woman made her speech and she was free to do so. The place she made it was a private event, so the people in charge are allowed to react to her actions and ask her to leave. The woman wasn't arrested for speaking, nor is there as fatwa calling for her death, like what would have happened if someone did something similar in a Muslim majority country.

Yeah justify

 

[YmirGF]

How many times do you think the CIA gives a warning of a potential attack and it doesn't end up in a terrorist attack though? You can't shut down the entire country every time you get a sense of an undefined threat.

Hindsight bias often makes it seem like the solution should have been 'obvious' prior to the fact.

In this case lots of individual pieces information are collated and collectively used to show how 'obvious' such an attack would be. It assumes that any individual had access to all pieces of information, that such true information could easily be separated from 'noise'.

Such systems are always imperfect, and all people can do is use failures as a learning tool to address structural, procedural and competency issues. At that time (I think) there was a serious backlog of intelligence due to the lack of Arabic translators for example, and inter-agency rivalry lead to failures in information sharing.

An analysis doesn't just look at the failings that resulted in an attack though, it should also look at failings that don't end in any attacks. This failing looks 'suspicious' to some people as they assume the CIA was highly efficient at all other times, yet there would have been hundreds of examples of exactly the same failings if you looked at the bigger picture. 99.9% of failures that don't end in a major terrorist attack are not ever made public though, and if they are they are not really newsworthy so no one knows about them.

If such an attack had been obvious before the fact then all sorts of people would have been predicting something similar.

The question is really why do problems occur in large intelligence bureaucracies, rather than why did they fail to identify this one specific attack.

Former CIA-Director George Tenet's book, "At the center of the storm" explains what you have said very clearly. He claims they had all sorts of information, but nothing that was particularly clear at the time.

 

[Godobeyer]

Former CIA-Director George Tenet's book, "At the center of the storm" explains what you have said very clearly. He claims they had all sorts of information, but nothing that was particularly clear at the time.

It's weird that they had sorts information but they did not do anything !
But it's weird too that they did not annouced alert warning to people.

 

[YmirGF]

It's weird that they had sorts information but they did not do anything !
But it's weird too that they did not annouced alert warning to people.

As stated though, Godobeyer, hindsight is 20/20. I stress, CIA Director Tenet did not say they had specific information. They had heard rumblings that something was brewing but none of the sources were particularly credible. But again, they deal with these kinds of rumors on a daily basis. It takes a substantial lead from credible sources to get them to raise the security level.

 

[Godobeyer]

As stated though, Godobeyer, hindsight is 20/20. I stress, CIA Director Tenet did not say they had specific information. They had heard rumblings that something was brewing but none of the sources were particularly credible. But again, they deal with these kinds of rumors on a daily basis. It takes a substantial lead from credible sources to get them to raise the security level.

I think the full story is missing .

they just did not want to release it, because somebody would pay his life time in prison,and the issue would be more scandalous.

 

[YmirGF]

I think the full story is missing .

they just did not want to release it, because somebody would pay his life time in prison,and the issue would be more scandalous.

If that is what you wish to believe.

 

[Flankerl]

hindsight is 20/20

 

[Godobeyer]

If that is what you wish to believe.

I hope the whole truth would released one day.

I remember some papers of story or investigation hidden , or classify as top secret.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Culture are different and traditions , so you can't force people to follow specific way of life.

Sure you can. Muslim countries do it all the time. As an example: Christians in Pakistan are frequently kidnapped, forced to marry Muslims and thus are forcibly converted to Islam.

So you can't may hunt cows in India,so go on

Sorry, your use of English confuses me here. What are you trying to say? That I can't hunt cows in India because that would be forcing my way of life on Hindus?

 

[Godobeyer]

Sure you can. Muslim countries do it all the time. As an example: Christians in Pakistan are frequently kidnapped, forced to marry Muslims and thus are forcibly converted to Islam.

It's not secret that we are the most victimes of extremists and we are fighting them.

Sorry, your use of English confuses me here. What are you trying to say? That I can't hunt cows in India because that would be forcing my way of life on Hindus?

ok
You made thread about before about Muslims killed by Hindus,because they sacrificed cows ?

In individual way,you may can't (and should not) force people to accept your way of life in their areas (tradition or religion).

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It's not secret that we are the most victimes of extremists and we are fighting them.

That doesn't counter my point about Christians being kidnapped and forcibly converted to Islam. Suffering & oppression is not a competition.

ok
You made thread about before about Muslims killed by Hindus,because they sacrificed cows ?

Oh, that's what you mean. That's not exactly what the thread was about but thank you for clarifying. I understand what you mean now, at least.

In individual way,you may can't (and should not) force people to accept your way of life in their areas (tradition or religion).

Well it's glad to hear a Muslim say that. Maybe if more Muslims thought that way then Muslim countries wouldn't be so forceful with their religious minorities. E.g. Christians in Pakistan or Egypt, or Zoroastrians in Iran not being allowed to accept converts because apostasy is illegal. On the subject of segregated learning in Islamic schools: there's an Islamic school run partly by volunteers somewhere in the UK (I won't say where because I don't know where it is) that is the subject of an Ofsted (that's the body responsible for ensuring schools here meet acceptable standards) report which says it needs significant improvement; and where the pupils themselves are saying they don't want sex-segregated learning because the practise doesn't prepare them for modern life in Britain. There we go; it's not just me, a non-Muslim, saying this. It's Muslims as well who think this practise is wrong and backwards.

Integration is vital for any foreign group to become an accepted part of a nation's culture. I made the thread about the Muslims who were raped because they allegedly ate beef because I feel it was a wholly disproportionate response to a mere allegation and forcing people to adopt foreign religious customs through violence is wrong. Saying Muslims should not segregate children based on sex - and that they should be held to the same standard of law as everyone else - is hardly that; not splitting children up because of their sex is not a denial of religious freedom because it isn't a requirement for children to be Muslims. Publicly funded schools should be on a level playing field. Allowing one or more religious groups to flout the law is ridiculous.

 

[Godobeyer]

That doesn't counter my point about Christians being kidnapped and forcibly converted to Islam. Suffering & oppression is not a competition.

I know it's could happened,but that not acceptable by all Muslims or Islam.
you may know that.

Oh, that's what you mean. That's not exactly what the thread was about but thank you for clarifying. I understand what you mean now, at least.

no problem.

Well it's glad to hear a Muslim say that. Maybe if more Muslims thought that way then Muslim countries wouldn't be so forceful with their religious minorities. E.g. Christians in Pakistan or Egypt, or Zoroastrians in Iran not being allowed to accept converts because apostasy is illegal. On the subject of segregated learning in Islamic schools: there's an Islamic school run partly by volunteers somewhere in the UK (I won't say where because I don't know where it is) that is the subject of an Ofsted (that's the body responsible for ensuring schools here meet acceptable standards) report which says it needs significant improvement; and where the pupils themselves are saying they don't want sex-segregated learning because the practise doesn't prepare them for modern life in Britain. There we go; it's not just me, a non-Muslim, saying this. It's Muslims as well who think this practise is wrong and backwards.

Integration is vital for any foreign group to become an accepted part of a nation's culture. I made the thread about the Muslims who were raped because they allegedly ate beef because I feel it was a wholly disproportionate response to a mere allegation and forcing people to adopt foreign religious customs through violence is wrong. Saying Muslims should not segregate children based on sex - and that they should be held to the same standard of law as everyone else - is hardly that; not splitting children up because of their sex is not a denial of religious freedom because it isn't a requirement for children to be Muslims. Publicly funded schools should be on a level playing field. Allowing one or more religious groups to flout the law is ridiculous.

I do believe kill apostasy is legal in religious war.

my point is:
On general what is wrong for you it's may right for me,so what's good for me it's may bad for you,so inverse.

I can't force to become a Muslim and you can't force your way of life on me or any others.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I know it's could happened,but that not acceptable by all Muslims or Islam.
you may know that.

Unfortunately that's not the impression non-Muslims are getting.

I do believe kill apostasy is legal in religious war.

Unfortunately Iran & other Muslim countries have made apostasy illegal in peace time as well. After all Iran is not at war.

my point is:
On general what is wrong for you it's may right for me,so what's good for me it's may bad for you,so inverse.

While this relativism seems nice, it is ultimately self-serving. Muslims aren't afraid to force their norms on non-Muslims (again, read the examples I've given before; as well as violent reactions to drawings of Muhammad) when it suits them. I include children in that because I don't believe there is such a thing as a religious child - a child hasn't made an informed decision to be a part of a religion after all.

And Islamic culture is far less accommodating than European cultures; that is our mistake. We're willing to tolerate a culture that has no tolerance for our way of life. That needs to change. No religious practitioners should be allowed to segregate their children for educational purposes - I'm not just talking about Muslims here either. Heck, religious schools shouldn't even be a thing as far as I'm concerned.

I can't force to become a Muslim and you can't force your way of life on me or any others.

That's something of a non-sequitur. Forcing Muslims to adapt to some cultural norms of a non-Muslim country is not forcing them to give up their identity as Muslims. Muslims can still practise their religion if they aren't allowed to segregate their children in an educational context. Until most Muslim-majority countries adopt your view and Islam becomes more tolerant of non-Muslims, there's not much room for manoeuvre, I'm afraid.

 

[Godobeyer]

Unfortunately that's not the impression non-Muslims are getting.

Because stereotyping and generalizing, and it's evil and unjustice.

Unfortunately Iran & other Muslim countries have made apostasy illegal in peace time as well. After all Iran is not at war.

I don't think it's very commun,and vast,and very rare , not commun.
I do know that many Algerian convert to Christianity,the authority did not accuse them by apostasy.

While this relativism seems nice, it is ultimately self-serving. Muslims aren't afraid to force their norms on non-Muslims (again, read the examples I've given before; as well as violent reactions to drawings of Muhammad) when it suits them. I include children in that because I don't believe there is such a thing as a religious child - a child hasn't made an informed decision to be a part of a religion after all.

And Islamic culture is far less accommodating than European cultures; that is our mistake. We're willing to tolerate a culture that has no tolerance for our way of life. That needs to change. No religious practitioners should be allowed to segregate their children for educational purposes - I'm not just talking about Muslims here either. Heck, religious schools shouldn't even be a thing as far as I'm concerned.




That's something of a non-sequitur. Forcing Muslims to adapt to some cultural norms of a non-Muslim country is not forcing them to give up their identity as Muslims. Muslims can still practise their religion if they aren't allowed to segregate their children in an educational context. Until most Muslim-majority countries adopt your view and Islam becomes more tolerant of non-Muslims, there's not much room for manoeuvre, I'm afraid.

I do believe some Muslims are living and accept to live as Western life.
it's not big deal for most of us.i


Check out :

Holiday/New Year Vlog: A day in an Algerian's Life