Death penalty: Are you for or against it?

[YmirGF]

In general I am very much against the death penalty, but with that said I am not so sure that the alternatives in the most extreme cases are very effective. While rehabilitation can work for the mainstream criminal, there are a few special types that have demonstrated quite clearly that they have no place in society.

 

[viole]

Really, what sparked this thread was reading a news story about a guy in Nevada who got dogs off of Craigslist and brutally tortured and dismembered them. He tried to blame it on drugs, but you could just feel the evil radiating off of him in his mug shot. They gave him the maximum sentence - 28 years. I actually cringed while reading the description of what he did to them. That doesn't happen often.

You seem to doubt eternal justice from God. And to be ready to take lives that belong to God only. As your pope would remind you.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In general I am very much against the death penalty, but with that said I am not so sure that the alternatives in the most extreme cases are very effective.

I oppose the death penalty, not in the hope that the guilty may come to live a more ethical life but in the hope that I may come to live in a more ethical society.

 

[Jainarayan]

Let's take the case of the Oregon shooter. Citing the "imperfect justice system" claim does not wash here. He was clearly guilty of murder. Had he lived he would have been given a trial, sentenced to death (if Oregon had an active death penalty... there's a moratorium) and had innumerable appeals. I can't see the potential for executing an innocent man in this. The piece of filth deserved to die, one way or another, but preferably by slowly bleeding out.

 

[YmirGF]

I oppose the death penalty, not in the hope that the guilty may come to live a more ethical life but in the hope that I may come to live in a more ethical society.

I do hear you, Jay, but struggle with the idea of keeping people in cages for decades as being more "ethical" than giving them a hole in their forehead. Which is more humane?

 

[Jainarayan]

You seem to doubt eternal justice from God. And to be ready to take lives that belong to God only. As your pope would remind you.

Ciao

- viole

“He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death. But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint you a place to which he may flee. If, however, a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him craftily, you are to take him even from My altar, that he may die” (Exodus 21:12-14).

"take him even from My altar" means there will be no sanctuary for the murderer.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Let's take the case of the Oregon shooter. Citing the "imperfect justice system" claim does not wash here. He was clearly guilty of murder. Had he lived he would have been given a trial, sentenced to death (if Oregon had an active death penalty... there's a moratorium) and had innumerable appeals. I can't see the potential for executing an innocent man in this. The piece of filth deserved to die, one way or another, but preferably by slowly bleeding out.

Your desire for revenge isn't a reasonable basis for public policy.

BTW: if we did base public policy on what people "deserve", things would be very different.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I do hear you, Jay, but struggle with the idea of keeping people in cages for decades as being more "ethical" than giving them a hole in their forehead. Which is more humane?

Ask Steven Truscott.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Truscott

 

[Jainarayan]

Your desire for revenge isn't a reasonable basis for public policy.

If you commit premeditated murder, you die. Take a life, forfeit yours. Simple.

 

[viole]

“He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death. But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint you a place to which he may flee. If, however, a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him craftily, you are to take him even from My altar, that he may die” (Exodus 21:12-14).

"take him even from My altar" means there will be no sanctuary for the murderer.

Sure. Let's delegate that to God. Or Thor, if you prefer. I am sure He will take care of it.

Or not?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jainarayan]

Sure. Let's delegate that to God. Or Thor, if you prefer. I am sure He will take care of it.

Or not?

Ciao

- viole

Did you read the verse? That is God telling Moses that the murderer is to be put to death. David Berkowitz is alive because God took care of it. Mark David Chapman is alive because God took care of it.

And if you knew anything about the Norse you'd know that the gods do not deal out justice on humans. They leave that to the humans. So please do not speak of what you do not know.

 

[Jumi]

I voted that I support the death penalty. It would have to be rare though and only for the most grievous crimes. Repeat murderers would qualify. I'd hate to see a government that executes people for minor offenses or something not conclusively proven.

 

[Jumi]

If you commit premeditated murder, you die. Take a life, forfeit yours. Simple.

Mostly reasonable. Excepting cases such as a child being abused by her parents for years taking it out to escape a hellish life.

 

[Jainarayan]

I voted that I support the death penalty. It would have to be rare though and only for the most grievous crimes. Repeat murderers would qualify. I'd hate to see a government that executes people for minor offenses or something not conclusively proven.

Not to worry, despite the claims that innocent people would be executed, that is hyperbole and melodrama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_row

In the United States, prisoners may wait years before execution can be carried out due to the complex and time-consuming appeals procedures mandated in the jurisdiction. The time between sentencing and execution has increased relatively steadily between 1977 and 2010, including a 22% jump between 1989 and 1990 and a similar jump between 2008 and 2009. In 2010, a death row inmate waited an average of 178 months (roughly 15 years) between sentencing and execution.[1] Nearly a quarter of deaths on death row in the U.S. are due tonatural causes.[2]

 

[Jainarayan]

Mostly reasonable. Excepting cases such as a child being abused by her parents for years taking it out to escape a hellish life.

Agreed. There are extenuating circumstances, and the law takes that into account... affirmative defense, extreme emotional distress and such.

 

[suncowiam]

I believe in an eye for an eye, which kind of like an inverse step from the golden rule.

Let the punishment fit the crime.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you commit premeditated murder, you die. Take a life, forfeit yours. Simple.

Simple and hypocritical.

 

[Jainarayan]

Simple and hypocritical.

Why hypocritical?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Guys. Imagine yourselves on death row. You killed X amount of people and the government says you deserve to be killed too.

Do you agree to their reasoning? Do you feel you have the right to ammend your life with whomever or whatever you believe in? Say family? God? Do you feel anyone else has the right to rid you of the only thing you have for yourself? Your body. Your mind. Your heart.

We all suffer consequences for our actions. In regards to killing others, that is not a correctional punishment like jail time or court fees. You (gov) are taking a life. I can only think of a couple of reasons why killing is natural: to defend oneself as the only option. To survive (meaning the body trumps thinking of morality).

Other than that, if you feel you deserve to die because you killed someone else, wait for that karma to come to you. Maybe your life had struggles and later you have a chance to make retribution.

Punishment for crimes should be correctional and temporary. No person has the right to limit the freedom of another. No one has the right to kill another.

Life is what we have left. Why rob someone of that based on your morals?

Anyway.

 

[columbus]

Why hypocritical?

Because in both cases you are talking about the premeditated killing of a human who is not a threat.
Tom