The Origin of Religion

[CDWolfe]

This thread is not about my personal beliefs or religion/denomination.

As I am working toward my degrees in both theology and history, I have had the opportunity to meet some interesting people (guest speakers) and attend various seminars. Their views and beliefs differ greatly, but those are not my concern. What does have my mind kicked into overdrive is the fascination of religion, and how it developed.

The earliest form of religion I can find is "zoolatry," or the worship/belief in an animal deity. This type of religion can be found in all parts of the world, dating back to the earliest cave drawings.

Egyptology is a HUGE field, and I don't even begin to pretend to be an expert in it. I have studied it, I know a little bit about it, but most importantly I equate the ancient Egyptians with the spread of religion through that region. Other religions can trace their roots to Egypt. Obviously, Horus vs. Jesus falls in this category. Other cultures (I think it is 16) have a story of a god-man that is crucified. They go by different names, in different time periods. The similarities can't be overlooked.

Ancient cultures borrowed from each other, and that includes religion. Stories, traditions, symbols, rites, laws, etc. People were migratory, and ideas/beliefs were easily spread. The Romans even adopted older Greek beliefs. I will always question how things came to be, especially religions such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Oh to be an invisible time traveler...

 

[Huey09]

Oh to be an invisible time traveler...

If you did they might've started a religion based off of you

 

[Sha'irullah]

The Origin of Religion is multicultural and separate in its cause and demand. Religions formed to explained the unexplained (although now explained). But the form of religions we have now that place emphasis on cultural norms and rules stemmed later on in history.

Religion formed primarily as a form of pseudo science.
Then to provide cultural stability.
Offer societal benefits and law.
Offer governmental institutions.
Then offer individual excuses for personal causes.

Religions have of course become borrowed upon by locality to other individual societies with formed separate from another. Societal unions, empires and trade amplified this of course.

 

[seeking4truth]

I disagree.

I think that humans are born with an innate knowledge of God since He created them. The description and development of that idea will depend on what culture you are born into and what exposure you have to different religious ideas.

I also think that monotheism came before polytheism although I know that there is no - non scriptural evidence for that.

God has always reached out to man through prophets/messengers, through dreams and visions.
Every religion started with the message of a prophet but later followers diluted the original ideas with misunderstanding and error because they no longer had the close contact with God that the prophet had. From such errors polytheism developed, mistaking the attributes and descriptions of the one God for different gods with different qualities.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I disagree.

I think that humans are born with an innate knowledge of God since He created them. The description and development of that idea will depend on what culture you are born into and what exposure you have to different religious ideas.

I agree with this. Do keep in mind that the belief in god is entirely different from religion, these are 2 separate institutions or beliefs.

 

[fallingblood]

This thread is not about my personal beliefs or religion/denomination.

As I am working toward my degrees in both theology and history, I have had the opportunity to meet some interesting people (guest speakers) and attend various seminars. Their views and beliefs differ greatly, but those are not my concern. What does have my mind kicked into overdrive is the fascination of religion, and how it developed.

The earliest form of religion I can find is "zoolatry," or the worship/belief in an animal deity. This type of religion can be found in all parts of the world, dating back to the earliest cave drawings.

Egyptology is a HUGE field, and I don't even begin to pretend to be an expert in it. I have studied it, I know a little bit about it, but most importantly I equate the ancient Egyptians with the spread of religion through that region. Other religions can trace their roots to Egypt. Obviously, Horus vs. Jesus falls in this category. Other cultures (I think it is 16) have a story of a god-man that is crucified. They go by different names, in different time periods. The similarities can't be overlooked.

Ancient cultures borrowed from each other, and that includes religion. Stories, traditions, symbols, rites, laws, etc. People were migratory, and ideas/beliefs were easily spread. The Romans even adopted older Greek beliefs. I will always question how things came to be, especially religions such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

Oh to be an invisible time traveler...

The origin of religion is a fascinating topic. With the discovery (or rediscovery) of Gobekli Tepe, it has become much more interesting. While many sociologist have take the position that culture and cities first arose, and then religion followed, the view is beginning to change. It may just be that religion was in fact first, and from that we begin to see the development of cultures and city life. This definitely would change quite a bit on the subject.

Now, while it is true that ancient cultures did borrow from each other, they also came up with many of the same ideas independently. The idea that there were 16 other crucified god-men in the ancient world really is not evidence that cultures borrowed from each other. In fact, Kersey Graves, the author of the work in regards to those 16 other god-men, simply was not a very good researcher (at least not on this subject). The work is even rejected by most who accept that Jesus was copied from other sources, mainly because Graves had his facts wrong. There are a couple god-men that he mentions that he most likely made up (as in, they are not mentioned anywhere else, or in any historical record), and his facts are hit and miss. Much of what he says is either wrong, or based on information that originated after Jesus.

Even the similarities between Horus and Jesus are minimal at best. In fact, if you look at an individual like Augustus, one will find similarities with other gods, as well as with Jesus. However, they fall quite short of being so identical to Horus, or any other supposed god-man.

Many of the rules and symbols, etc, did not need to be borrowed either. There are similarities between ancient Native American laws, and Ancient Hebrew laws. They obviously did not have any contact, but there are various concerns that many deal with. While there are some similarities that are definitely borrowed from one another, to distinguish which ones were can be very difficult. Some of the most recent work that I have been doing is on the influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism and later Christianity. Some of the similarities are striking; however, the big question always has to be is, is there a need for the group to have borrowed such an idea? Or, is there any evidence of such borrowing? Often the answer is no.

 

[1137]

The oldest known religion, if we don't care for intricate detail, isn't even human. Evidence suggested Neanderthals had religious beliefs, at the very least beliefs in some sort of earth goddess. As for the spread of religion, irrelevant of location the explanation is likely self serving and very intelligent individuals. You have all these gods of nature like in Egypt, mixed with humanity's innate tendency to require explanations and a sense of control, and it's easy to see how religion spreads. We create ritual to get nature working in our favor, someone intelligent comes into power due to supposed secret knowledge, a connection with the gods (i.e. a god-king), whatever it is, then you spread your belief and fight for it because different beliefs are obviously wrong and insulting to the true gods.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Obviously, Horus vs. Jesus falls in this category. .

Wow ... a double degree in drivel!

 

[1137]

Wow ... a double degree in drivel!

I caught that too. Too many conspiracy videos on YouTube, not enough history texts.

 

[LuisDantas]

What does have my mind kicked into overdrive is the fascination of religion, and how it developed.

It is a fascinating if highly controversial subject, to be sure.

It seems to cause a lot of disagreement and a not inconsiderable amount of passionate claims, though. Usually poorly documented and arguably indocumentable claims.

I love to make that kind of claim, myself.

The earliest form of religion I can find is "zoolatry," or the worship/belief in an animal deity. This type of religion can be found in all parts of the world, dating back to the earliest cave drawings.

Interesting. In a purely speculative guess, I will say that this might be because animals are very intriguing for the kind of people who look for religion in a society that lacks it. They are so obviously different from us, with clashing and mysterious needs, behavior and perception - and very varied among themselves to boot.

The need to understand, predict and negotiate with larger existence (which IMO is the birther of religion) can't help but deal with animals very soon, don't you think?

Egyptology is a HUGE field, and I don't even begin to pretend to be an expert in it. I have studied it, I know a little bit about it, but most importantly I equate the ancient Egyptians with the spread of religion through that region. Other religions can trace their roots to Egypt. Obviously, Horus vs. Jesus falls in this category. Other cultures (I think it is 16) have a story of a god-man that is crucified. They go by different names, in different time periods. The similarities can't be overlooked.

I do think that it is dangerous to read too much into them, however. And all the more so to attempt to believe that they are in some way "the truth", much less literal history.

I just don't think that would make a lot of sense, really.

When you analyse the crucified god-man myth from a step away, it is all about several powerful hopes, guilts and drives that are pretty much universal. The hopes for having a True (and truly powerful) Friend, to be Forgiven, to have a Second Chance at Deserving Happiness.

In retrospect, it would be amazing if it had not developed often and abroad. You will notice the strong similarities to the classic Greek conception of the Hero Myth - which includes some sort of fall or tragic loss so that the Hero is not simply superior and unrelatable.

Ancient cultures borrowed from each other, and that includes religion. Stories, traditions, symbols, rites, laws, etc. People were migratory, and ideas/beliefs were easily spread. The Romans even adopted older Greek beliefs.

They were hardly alone, either. By their own nature, beliefs are pretty much a free merchandise, exchanged among cultures basically ever since.

I will always question how things came to be, especially religions such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

I find the Abrahamic Faiths fairly odd, myself. They are in several senses so unlikely and eccentric that I often think that I will never truly understand their popularity.

 

[danieldemol]

I also think that monotheism came before polytheism although I know that there is no - non scriptural evidence for that.

I'm not really sure there is scriptural evidence for it either, according to the Qur'an Abraham worshipped the stars, moon, and sun before becoming monotheist and he came from a family of polytheists. Stories relating to Adam could surely only be considered allegorical rather than a literal reading of history, so it may not be possible to say what form of inspiration Adam's converse with God would have taken. Either way one would still have to assume Adam was the first human, which seems unlikely a mere 6000 years ago.

Also the humanly recorded Qur'an hasn't been on earth long enough to contain objectively historical record of human belief. The Jewish scriptures which have been recorded much earlier would seem to indicate that ancient Jews had belief in more than one god at some stage prior to monotheism.

 

[Riverwolf]

I also think that monotheism came before polytheism although I know that there is no - non scriptural evidence for that.

And all evidence to the contrary. Though there were also forms of religion that predate what might be recognized as polytheism.

These take the form of Shamanism, Totemism, Animism, etc.

 

[seeking4truth]

Stories relating to Adam could surely only be considered allegorical rather than a literal reading of history, so it may not be possible to say what form of inspiration Adam's converse with God would have taken. Either way one would still have to assume Adam was the first human, which seems unlikely a mere 6000 years ago.

According to the Holy Quran Adam was the first prophet not the first human.

There is nothing to indicate when Adam lived but we do know that he was the first human(Neanderthal or not??) who had evolved to the point when he could begin spiritual development.

 

[Breathe]

And all evidence to the contrary. Though there were also forms of religion that predate what might be recognized as polytheism.

These take the form of Shamanism, Totemism, Animism, etc.

^ This.

I think we're innately born as animists and/or pantheists.

I believe religion is socially based, communal spirituality, and so the origin of religion is the codified social customs, history, folklore, myth and so on.

In short. I would write more but I've not got the free time atm for writing in depth.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Good, there's a thread on this so I don't have to start one.

The earliest form of religion I can find is "zoolatry," or the worship/belief in an animal deity. This type of religion can be found in all parts of the world, dating back to the earliest cave drawings.

I have never heard of that term before. Shows how much more I have to learn, in place of that term I thought of it as 'animism' which seems sort of synonymous though. But I suppose 'zoolatry' is more direct. I'll try to remember that.

Other cultures (I think it is 16) have a story of a god-man that is crucified.

That's quite a few. I wonder what the run down is on that.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

societal benefits and law.

Not so sure about that. It takes a very strange paleolithic or neolithic man to offer the first animal sacrifice for a community, thereby possibly wasting a good deal a food. What causes such a radical choice? Something quirky in basic human psychology seems to believe that not using valuable resources that may be hard won is an indication of great gratitude. And what of the priest? The people must oftentimes work for their upkeep, and possibly follow errant advice from them. There are probably more concerns as well that could be discussed.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The origin of religion is a fascinating topic. With the discovery (or rediscovery) of Gobekli Tepe, it has become much more interesting.

Yes, and from what I read there are many depictions of animals there like ox and strange lizards, probably a pretty clear indication of animism and zoolatry. Perhaps people were so fascinated by all the myriad forms of animal life that they just had to bestow them souls, just had to elevate them into gods.

There are similarities between ancient Native American laws, and Ancient Hebrew laws. They obviously did not have any contact, but there are various concerns that many deal with.

Yeah I've read that to. I guess some of the Native Americans may have had a 7 day cycle going, I'm not sure if it was the Cherokee or what, but I'd like to hear a little more on that.

 

[psychoslice]

Probobly it started around the camp fire ?.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The need to understand, predict and negotiate with larger existence (which IMO is the birther of religion) can't help but deal with animals very soon, don't you think?

Yeah, they saw that animals were special, that they could do incredible things we could not even though they could not 'think' like us. So they began to see the 'soul' in the animal, they just knew that there was more to it that what they saw on the outside. What turns the gears on all these things? But I guess what I was wondering is what would make the first early paleolithic or neolithic man want to actually sacrifice an animal? People back then supposedly needed to be more careful with food, in general, but someone took a very drastic and radical action in bringing the first animal to an altar. Why did people think waste conferred gratitude?

 

[LuisDantas]

what I was wondering is what would make the first early paleolithic or neolithic man want to actually sacrifice an animal?

One reason is the drive to present oneself as both strong (capable of capturing and killing that animal) and willing to earn favor.

People back then supposedly needed to be more careful with food, in general, but someone took a very drastic and radical action in bringing the first animal to an altar. Why did people think waste conferred gratitude?

For the same reason they pay protection money to the Mafia.

IIRC, traditional Greek myth even offers a reason to offer the bones and fat of animals over more desirable parts (it was the bigger half of the prey and therefore chosen by the deity).

Yep, here it is.

Greek Mythology Stories Creation Man Prometheus