The Origin of Religion

[amorphous_constellation]

IIRC, traditional Greek myth even offers a reason to offer the bones and fat of animals over more desirable parts (it was the bigger half of the prey and therefore chosen by the deity).

Yep, here it is.

I've read that before, though I'm not totally sure what they would entail. When you barbecue a whole pig, the 'best' parts are the fatty parts aren't they, the crackling and the meat around the ribs is what to go for. So I'm not sure how those ancient Greeks would have sacrificed an animal, since much of that fat mixes with the meat and it needs to be bitten off bones in some cases. The lean meat, though probably the most healthy part, is not often the part with a lot of taste in it.

I'm just curious if there was really unanimous neolithic support for this religious food tax, or if it was early seen by some as perhaps analogous to financially supporting a mega-church. Surely not every personage of early man was an animist, though I suppose that perspective was one that may have been shunned.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Origin of Religion

Religion or more specifically revealed religions started at a point in human evolution (or creation via evolution) when man sufficiently developed traits fit enough to receive Converse of G-d or Word of Revelation.
So the origin of religion is based on communication from G-d with man.

Regards

 

[Popcorn]

Every religion is different, many different origins. It would be easier to discuss the origins of secularism or universalism because without those as the core or fundamental ideology of an imperialist political system, there's no reason to ever classify people into such categories of this religion or that religion. As long as there is what might be construed as a Cult of Secularism set about to assimilate all the people in the world, to eliminate the natural, organic way of life of each tribe and nation and replace it with a culture of consumerism that's based upon some idea that the secularism is universally true whereas the religion is untrue mythology or fantasy, the world is in jeopardy.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The Origin of Religion

Religion or more specifically revealed religions started at a point in human evolution (or creation via evolution) when man sufficiently developed traits fit enough to receive Converse of G-d or Word of Revelation.
So the origin of religion is based on communication from G-d with man.

Regards

Well, I think I'd have to explain it a little differently, there is more complexity to it there is a lot more to say about the implications of it all. Mankind developed, and at a certain point reached some platform of stability. Reaching this, they decided quite quickly that it was appropriate to create an edifice of behavior connecting them to invisible worlds and rules. It seems to be human nature to generally try and construct such edifices, though the augmentation of our behavior here with such does not seem to have discernible a effects, most or all of the time.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

As long as there is what might be construed as a Cult of Secularism set about to assimilate all the people in the world, to eliminate the natural, organic way of life of each tribe and nation and replace it with a culture of consumerism that's based upon some idea that the secularism is universally true whereas the religion is untrue mythology or fantasy, the world is in jeopardy.

Thus thought the very first priest on earth, that the only way to obviate true cultural problems was only to construct an edifice of behavior whereby supernatural intervening forces could assist and guide us. In that sense, every religion is the same.

 

[JoStories]

I disagree.

I think that humans are born with an innate knowledge of God since He created them. The description and development of that idea will depend on what culture you are born into and what exposure you have to different religious ideas.

I also think that monotheism came before polytheism although I know that there is no - non scriptural evidence for that.

God has always reached out to man through prophets/messengers, through dreams and visions.
Every religion started with the message of a prophet but later followers diluted the original ideas with misunderstanding and error because they no longer had the close contact with God that the prophet had. From such errors polytheism developed, mistaking the attributes and descriptions of the one God for different gods with different qualities.

While I mean no disrespect to you, your statement that monotheism came first is flatly erroneous. Historical data points to places like Catal Huyuk as being one of the places where organized religion began. And early man clearly used multiple 'gods' to explain that which they could not understand.
As for your statement that each religion was born of a prophet, that is untrue as well. The first organized religion was that of the Hindus. The Vedas were some of the very first sacred texts known to man and Hinduism has many Gods and Goddesses. I would ask you how you can prove there is 'one' God. Generally speaking, it is my belief that God can and is many things to many peoples. That can include many different faces of God, to include gods of various names and faces.
And lastly, no human is born knowing God. All of religion and spirituality is a learned behavior. Oft times, it is brow beaten into children. And in point of fact, children can't understand the reality of God until they have the ability of abstract thought.

 

[JoStories]

The origin of religion is a fascinating topic. With the discovery (or rediscovery) of Gobekli Tepe, it has become much more interesting. While many sociologist have take the position that culture and cities first arose, and then religion followed, the view is beginning to change. It may just be that religion was in fact first, and from that we begin to see the development of cultures and city life. This definitely would change quite a bit on the subject.

Now, while it is true that ancient cultures did borrow from each other, they also came up with many of the same ideas independently. The idea that there were 16 other crucified god-men in the ancient world really is not evidence that cultures borrowed from each other. In fact, Kersey Graves, the author of the work in regards to those 16 other god-men, simply was not a very good researcher (at least not on this subject). The work is even rejected by most who accept that Jesus was copied from other sources, mainly because Graves had his facts wrong. There are a couple god-men that he mentions that he most likely made up (as in, they are not mentioned anywhere else, or in any historical record), and his facts are hit and miss. Much of what he says is either wrong, or based on information that originated after Jesus.

Even the similarities between Horus and Jesus are minimal at best. In fact, if you look at an individual like Augustus, one will find similarities with other gods, as well as with Jesus. However, they fall quite short of being so identical to Horus, or any other supposed god-man.

Many of the rules and symbols, etc, did not need to be borrowed either. There are similarities between ancient Native American laws, and Ancient Hebrew laws. They obviously did not have any contact, but there are various concerns that many deal with. While there are some similarities that are definitely borrowed from one another, to distinguish which ones were can be very difficult. Some of the most recent work that I have been doing is on the influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism and later Christianity. Some of the similarities are striking; however, the big question always has to be is, is there a need for the group to have borrowed such an idea? Or, is there any evidence of such borrowing? Often the answer is no.

Your statement that the similarities between jesus and horus are minimal is grossly erroneous. The following is an excellent source of the comparisons. And it is fairly recent for most of us theology scholars.
Murdock, D.M. (2008). Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection. Stellar House Publishing.
As for your statement that there are similarities between NA's and Hebrew Laws, as a 1/2 NA, untrue. I would like to know your source for this assertoin. And lastly, there is obvious evidence of 'borrowing". What your opposing source?

 

[roger1440]

Religion comes from man’s search for meaning.

 

[Twilight Hue]

A good drug trip might have kick started a notion of there being a realm leading to a base religion.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Religion comes from man’s search for meaning.

The first organized religion was that of the Hindus.

The first priest, the first and original wise-sayer of myth and legend said that the 'search stops here,' and born in that moment was a 'meaning' constructed for why we are all here. For the first organized religion did not come with Hinduism, though that is old, but with the first gathering of 2 or 3 that listened to another for their opinion on the matter. So now, the wondering of people could supposedly be sated. They need search no longer, for they have installed a lens upon their perception in order to paint reality with the brush of words uttered toward its supposed delineation.

 

[Riverwolf]

It occurs to me that perhaps the question of "the origin of religion" is more distracting than we realize. After all, based on what I've been learning about the traditions of pre-Christian Europe, I'm not so sure that they entirely qualify as "religions" in any of the common modern senses. The same seems to be true of still-existent indigenous "religions", like Shinto. Specific Gods, rituals, and taboos seemed to largely be localized (though certainly since the Greeks and Romans started writing about the peoples they collectively called Celtic and Germanic, many of these Gods already seemed to have become known and worshiped across multiple Tribes), such that there may have been no conception of "religion" as something wholly distinct from other parts of every day life (or, at least, somehow more "special" than other distinguished aspects of life, such as competitive events or food).

Most of us who grew up in the Western world have been taught to look at all religions, or traditions labeled as such, as compared to Christianity. This is fairly easy with the other Abrahamic religions, as well as religions like Buddhism, since they're all easily comparable. But trying to get an accurate picture of something like Shinto using a Christian lens is almost impossible. The more I peek into Shinto, and other still-existent indigenous traditions, the more I realize just how different they are from Christianity and the modern post-Enlightenment thought that it inspired.

So... I wonder if the question itself needs to be reworked before an adequate answer can be provided. For example, instead of the origin of "religion", how about "religious-like behavior"?

 

[psychoslice]

Religion comes from man’s search for meaning.

Yes your right, and sadly it then becomes organized, and it dies.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

So... I wonder if the question itself needs to be reworked before an adequate answer can be provided. For example, instead of the origin of "religion", how about "religious-like behavior"?

Good one, I guess that's getting more on point to what I was trying to figure out. It's the oddest thing though. There are questions I wanted to ask about the origins of religion, but I'm unsure if any single question can really ask it the way I want it to. It's not only behavior, but how it relates to either being something that creates or is a sub-category in a culture, as well as what the religion was perceptually replacing, as all religion and even culture is but a dam created upon the river of reality which may in fact be naturally inexplicable.

 

[serp777]

Religion probably started off as a shamanistic/magical thinking/schizophrenic influenced institution. People would often eat things with hallucinogenic properties accidentally for instance; when you see an animal talking to you it would seem reasonable that there is an animal God out there. From there you get mob mentality and mutually supporting beliefs starting to form a baseline religion with leadership from the person who hallucinated it. After a significant amount of time, the humans which had a propensity to believe in magical thinking and superstition were more likely to form more stable communities under a banner of belief, which made them more likely to pass on their genes. This probably contributed to the formation of early societies as well. This process occurred over probably 500,000 years and selectively ended up with very imaginative, pattern seeking humans. Combine all this with a misunderstanding of astronomical and geological events and you get the perfect breeding ground for belief.

The emergence of religion reflects how man made and flawed it is. I don't know how anyone can believe a particular religion; its beyond me when you consider the evolution of religion. There have been so many religions that the odds of yours being right is much less than one percent assuming one is even right period.

 

[JoStories]

The first priest, the first and original wise-sayer of myth and legend said that the 'search stops here,' and born in that moment was a 'meaning' constructed for why we are all here. For the first organized religion did not come with Hinduism, though that is old, but with the first gathering of 2 or 3 that listened to another for their opinion on the matter. So now, the wondering of people could supposedly be sated. They need search no longer, for they have installed a lens upon their perception in order to paint reality with the brush of words uttered toward its supposed delineation.

I think the word here that defines this discussion is organized. 2 or 3 sitting around talking doesn't fit the definition of organized. Keep in mind that with the term comes the need for a sacred text and followers larger in number than that which you mention. It's universally accepted by nearly all theology scholars that Hinduism is the first when it comes to organized faith.

 

[Augustus]

IIRC, traditional Greek myth even offers a reason to offer the bones and fat of animals over more desirable parts (it was the bigger half of the prey and therefore chosen by the deity).

Yep, here it is.

Greek Mythology Stories Creation Man Prometheus

Just to add to that, in case anyone is interested: If we simply look at Greek Myths connected to Prometheus we get the following overlap with Abrahamic faiths:

Man created from clay and has life breathed into him by a God
(Man created before woman)
The curiosity of a woman unleashes hardship and problems onto all of humanity
Humanity becomes iniquitous prompting God to wipe them out with a large flood.
All are killed except a pious family (Deucalion, son of Prometheus) who build a device to keep them afloat which ends up on a mountain when floods subside.
God has the ability to punish transgressors for eternity, including destroying then regrowing body parts (Prometheus, Islamic hell)

While they obviously aren't factually true, these creation myths do transmit valuable knowledge. Generally something along the line of "man is not God, man is fundamentally flawed and cannot completely escape this condition, hubris will lead to catastrophe".

People forgetting the message of these 'primitive' myths killed hundreds of millions of people since the start of the 20th C.

These similarities are what to expect though, the idea of clearly defined 'religions' is largely a Christian invention. The idea that 'religion' can be separated from other aspects of society, culture, law, etc. is also a Christian concept.

To think about the origin of 'religion', we really need to forget completely about modern concepts.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I think the word here that defines this discussion is organized. 2 or 3 sitting around talking doesn't fit the definition of organized. Keep in mind that with the term comes the need for a sacred text and followers larger in number than that which you mention. It's universally accepted by nearly all theology scholars that Hinduism is the first when it comes to organized faith.

I think I still have to disagree there. Druidism for example was part of an oral tradition, Julius Caesar said it involved 20 years of training. That was back when the Celts had no writing. Not every shaman or priest or animist on earth as always had a text to embody their spiritual beliefs, and there's really no telling how far back their religions went. Now, when a paleolithic hunting party started bringing animals in front of a priest on a daily basis for blessings and sacrifice, I'd say their organizational status is already changing. Pretty soon you have 20 people loyal to ritual, counting moons until festivals, sacrificing, blessing, and praying to specific invisible forces.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

These similarities are what to expect though, the idea of clearly defined 'religions' is largely a Christian invention. The idea that 'religion' can be separated from other aspects of society, culture, law, etc. is also a Christian concept.

I'm not sure. I think it might be a secular concept, this idea that religion can be untangled from its integration in a life. But I suppose Christianity was oddly enough, one step removed from a creation story, one step removed from texts describing the rules for all aspects of life. By reading the New Testament and not reading the Old (I read the New first a long time ago) it comes off as more of a philosophy than a religion in some ways.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

The emergence of religion reflects how man made and flawed it is. I don't know how anyone can believe a particular religion; its beyond me when you consider the evolution of religion. There have been so many religions that the odds of yours being right is much less than one percent assuming one is even right period.

The fact there are so many religions that have probably come and gone in that time span probably says more about us, that we are flawed. If this whole program were to run again, the mammoth or the bear hunters would still worship the thing. So it is something in the human head that directs the energy there, and psychologically it is not well-defined.

 

[paarsurrey]

Just to add to that, in case anyone is interested: If we simply look at Greek Myths connected to Prometheus we get the following overlap with Abrahamic faiths:

Man created from clay and has life breathed into him by a God
(Man created before woman)
The curiosity of a woman unleashes hardship and problems onto all of humanity
Humanity becomes iniquitous prompting God to wipe them out with a large flood.
All are killed except a pious family (Deucalion, son of Prometheus) who build a device to keep them afloat which ends up on a mountain when floods subside.
God has the ability to punish transgressors for eternity, including destroying then regrowing body parts (Prometheus, Islamic hell)

While they obviously aren't factually true, these creation myths do transmit valuable knowledge. Generally something along the line of "man is not God, man is fundamentally flawed and cannot completely escape this condition, hubris will lead to catastrophe".

People forgetting the message of these 'primitive' myths killed hundreds of millions of people since the start of the 20th C.

These similarities are what to expect though, the idea of clearly defined 'religions' is largely a Christian invention. The idea that 'religion' can be separated from other aspects of society, culture, law, etc. is also a Christian concept.

To think about the origin of 'religion', we really need to forget completely about modern concepts.

Thanks for providing us good information.
I don't find most of the things if not all that would have made your religion as "none" .
Please mention, if not personal.
Regards