Men and Women

[Colt]

Consistentcy and coherence matter to you.

What matters to me, is that I try not to project my version of good and bad onto other humans, but check what is at play.

Truth and error are what I'm interested in. The spirit of a spoiled child simply can't accept either!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Truth and error are what I'm interested in. The spirit of a spoiled child simply can't accept either!

Yeah, I like how you can't handle different abstract cogntion and act as if it is childish.

 

[Colt]

Yeah, I like how you can't handle different abstract cogntion and act as if it is childish.

"Abstract cognition" is simply the claim of one who refuses to accept the reality of facts becuse they can't accept themselves.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

"Abstract cognition" is simply the claim of one who refuses to accept the reality of facts becuse they can't accept themselves.

Well, it is worse. I am not in reality or real and I haven't really written this. This is not unique to me and if you continue answering what is not really real, you might end like me and become unreal.

 

[Kfox]

What about individuals who have xy chromosomes but develop into anatomical females from a lack of the hormone to induce secondary male characteristics (born with female anatomy but has xy chromosomes?)

Though there are a few syndrome/deformities that will cause an exception to the rule, (usually the doctor can tell you what went wrong in the birthing process to cause this) but as a rule, anyone with xx is female, anyone with xy is male.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Though there are a few syndrome/deformities that will cause an exception to the rule, (usually the doctor can tell you what went wrong in the birthing process to cause this) but as a rule, anyone with xx is female, anyone with xy is male.

Yeah, but such a syndrome says nothing about the value of the human in question.
Or if the person feels like a man or a woman.

 

[Kfox]

Yeah, but such a syndrome says nothing about the value of the human in question.
Or if the person feels like a man or a woman.

I never said that it does. A person born with the deformity causing him to have only 2 fingers instead of 5 on each hand is just as human as those of us born without the deformity having 5. But that exception to the rule does not take away from the rule that humans have 5 fingers on each hand.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I never said that it does. A person born with the deformity causing him to have only 2 fingers instead of 5 on each hand is just as human as those of us born without the deformity having 5. But that exception to the rule does not take away from the rule that humans have 5 fingers on each hand.

I know of no rule that says that. I think you are projecting human understanding onto something that is not applicable for rules.

 

[icehorse]

Sex is the trait that determines whether a sexually reproducing organism produces male or female gametes. During sexual reproduction, a male and a female gamete fuse to form a zygote, which develops into an offspring that inherits traits from each parent​

What if the individual does not produce gametes?

and your point is?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

and your point is?

That is all this is about in the end. Not fact but the point of it all or what matters. Not that there is a world, but how that matters.
And if there is an objective standard to that or if it is different subjective feelings in the end.

 

[icehorse]

That is all this is about in the end. Not fact but the point of it all or what matters. Not that there is a world, but how that matters.
And if there is an objective standard to that or if it is different subjective feelings in the end.

What matters is that women and girls not be thrown under the bus while we figure out good ways to help trans people.
What matters is that we don't let activists undermine our abilities to communicate with each other.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What matters is that women and girls not be thrown under the bus while we figure out good ways to help trans people.
What matters is that we don't let activists undermine our abilities to communicate with each other.

Yeah, but from there doesn't follow that you are a we and can decide what is the correct understanding, simply because it makes sense to you.
The same is the case for me.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Consistentcy and coherence matter to you.

What matters to me, is that I try not to project my version of good and bad onto other humans, but check what is at play.

I really think you're missing my point entirely. I'm not suggesting society needs to be consistent or coherent or that there is a 'right' answer here. But whatever...people are weird on this topic. They tend to engage to monologue more than dialogue it seems.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I really think you're missing my point entirely. I'm not suggesting society needs to be consistent or coherent or that there is a 'right' answer here. But whatever...people are weird on this topic. They tend to engage to monologue more than dialogue it seems.

No, you would like people as indivuduals to be consistent or coherent, right?
Okay, that would be nice, but it is still subjective that you want that.
You have an idea of better. So do I, it might just be somewhat different.

The fun starts if we try to find a middle ground.

 

[crossfire]

and your point is?

If your definition of man or woman is decided by the gametes they produce, then is an individual who produces no gametes neither a man nor a woman?

 

[crossfire]

Though there are a few syndrome/deformities that will cause an exception to the rule, (usually the doctor can tell you what went wrong in the birthing process to cause this) but as a rule, anyone with xx is female, anyone with xy is male.

So the "natural" rule is sometimes broken?

 

[icehorse]

If your definition of man or woman is decided by the gametes they produce, then is an individual who produces no gametes neither a man nor a woman?

How is that question relevant to this discussion?

 

[crossfire]

If your definition of man or woman is decided by the gametes they produce, then is an individual who produces no gametes neither a man nor a woman?

How is that question relevant to this discussion?

Let me refer you to the OP:

What exactly makes a man a "man"?

What exactly makes a woman a "woman"?


Edited:

Who gets to make these decisions for themselves? Others?

Your definition of male and female does not cover those who produce no gametes. If the production of male gametes makes a man a man, and the production of female gametes makes a woman a woman, then are those who produce no gametes neither a man nor a woman because they do not meet your requirements of what makes a man a man or what makes a woman a woman?

 

[icehorse]

Let me refer you to the OP:

Your definition of male and female does not cover those who produce no gametes. If the production of male gametes makes a man a man, and the production of female gametes makes a woman a woman, then are those who produce no gametes neither a man nor a woman because they do not meet your requirements of what makes a man a man or what makes a woman a woman?

Ah, I understand now, thanks.

Almost every categorization scheme suffers from rare exceptions. That does not mean the scheme is wrong. The definition I provided is overwhelmingly correct, and I agree that exceptions exist.

 

[Kfox]

I know of no rule that says that. I think you are projecting human understanding onto something that is not applicable for rules.

So if a person is born with 7 fingers on each hand due to Polydactyly, is it your view that this is perfectly normal, and no need for treatment? If so, why do you suppose the medical community has determined Polydactyly to be an deformity/syndrome?