Zen and humaneness

[Twilight Hue]

So basically you say the same like dyanaprajna2011, I should stop thinking too much and start doing? the rest will come by itself

There is a technique involved and it's effectivness is weighed with life and living by which the answers will come naturally through insight. The "rest" becomes apparent as insight deepens. Many times not in a manner expected during moments of clarity.

 

[Straw Dog]

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm still a little lost. How does this differ from zazen or anapanasati? And is it similar to pranayama?

Similar in some ways. Different in other ways.

I don't count and/or chase the breath and I don't see much value in the full lotus position. Yin-zen cultivates awareness of willpower and inner potentiality instead (think yin-yang). It leads more directly to insight, simply being, and perpetual meditation.

 

[Bruce Planck]

There is a technique involved and it's effectivness is weighed with life and living by which the answers will come naturally through insight. The "rest" becomes apparent as insight deepens. Many times not in a manner expected during moments of clarity.

Do you have some tips for literature or even websites with good descriptions of this 'technique'? Would you say, it's necessary to have a teacher? I have a certain idea, what this (Zen) is all about, but I feel I need someone to tell me I'm wrong (because I probably am). Also in the literature the importance of the teacher is often emphasized.

Do you guys have a Zen-Teacher, a 'master' to push you in the right direction?

 

[Secret Chief]

If you can get to a temple, you could ask all your questions face to face in real time, rather than waiting on disparate posts on a forum.

But there is no pushing. If you want to go to the loo, no one can go for you.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Maybe I am completely missing the point of Zen here. If you think so, please tell me!

Thanks for your opinions!

If this doesn't make sense, then you are missing the point,..so long as there is a 'you' seeking to understand zen or not seeking to understand zen, then you are as far from realization of what and who you really are as the day you were born.

The true teaching of zen is that there is no true teaching. Nevertheless this teaching that there is no true teaching is the true teaching.

The point being that so long as the human mind is firing neurons attempting to interpret reality through conceptualizations, true reality of existence is obscured by the division of the underlying unity (non duality) of the true reality of existence into two parts,..the interpreter and the interpretation. Still the mind and the thinker comes to an end (albeit at first only a temporary ending), and actual non-dual reality is present directly without interpretation,

So to recap,..this post is using conceptual language as an expedient to convey to you that conceptual language can't explain or convey what is on the other side of the concept of the cosmic reality. For that, the mind must be free of thought,..no thought,..no thinker,..no duality,...'what is' is only then non-conceptually present. Sadly no witnesses can vouch for such a realization for that would imply a second entity and such a second entity is maya.

 

[Bruce Planck]

Haha, okay guys! Thank you all for your patience and good will!

My first idea why I started this thread though was not to understand Zen in the sense of 'I know Zen now', but getting an idea what it is about, how it works, and why the methods and practices of Zen where chosen the way they are. I know, that it is not about learning a lesson somebody teaches me, but that I have to make my own experiences, that nobody can 'solve' something for me, what limits the the answers of questions to be some kind inspiration, but never a solution, since the inner experience is impossible to verbalize. I understand, that it's about insight through feeling and not through thinking or words. I never expected answers about the content of Zen, maybe not even what Zen is, but more on the tools that are given to those who practice it. My questions about the ethical content, about the relation to the 'tools' of Buddhism and about the 'coldness' of Zen where answered to my satisfaction.

I don't wanna 'learn' Zen by asking questions in this forum, just share some thoughts and get feedback

So, thanks all!
Peace

 

[Straw Dog]

I don't wanna 'learn' Zen by asking questions in this forum, just share some thoughts and get feedback

That's okay. You can learn Zen by asking questions. Just don't expect any true answer. Anyway, you seem to be flowing well so far. Simply be and act for life. Ethical impressions are temporary tools for cultivating character and virtue. Life is complex so look within for personal truth.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Do you have some tips for literature or even websites with good descriptions of this 'technique'? Would you say, it's necessary to have a teacher? I have a certain idea, what this (Zen) is all about, but I feel I need someone to tell me I'm wrong (because I probably am). Also in the literature the importance of the teacher is often emphasized.

Do you guys have a Zen-Teacher, a 'master' to push you in the right direction?

The technique is just Zazen. Not complicated or requiring years to learn. Shunryu Suzuki's book zen mind beginners mind has a section on Zazen.

Teachers are importiant and of course there needs to be some interaction to make sure the methodology is correct, yet it's not necessary for effective Zen practice. You can practice Zen solo, but it's exceedingly difficult from what others say. I had brief exchanges and guidance with Zen clergy, but never formally for protracted periods of time. It seemed more traditional to me as students in the past were literally told to sit and once doing so, were left to figure it out themselves.
I felt doing it blindly and " feeling out" Zen practice with all the folly, trips, and falls would be worth the embarrassment of saying and doing dumb things in front of formal practitioners. Theres something to be said for hardcore trial and error having no one to ascertain any development. Im Personally not in any race for" levels" or to see how " far" I came since starting Zen by way of a comparative sense with others. Insight is what guides the practitioner.

A teacher can however be invaluable, but should not be chosen soley on the basis of formal transmission. It's an intimate relationship by which imo cannot be effective through modern "processed" zendos.

I hope if and when i ever cross paths and choose it's not through the Buddhist mill house. Id rather just rake leaves and shoot the ****. with someone.

 

[Bruce Planck]

I'm dealing with philosophy and buddhism by myself ever since. But the more I learn the more I have the feeling, I need someome who is able to judge what would be a real 'awakening' experience on the way to satori and what is just an illusion, made up by my own mind. I have no tools to tell by myself if I am still on the right path or if I follow just some phantasies. Everything I can think of comes from my inside and is therefore depending on the progress I make. I expect my Ego to trick and mislead me whenever it sees the possibility to rescue itself. To prevent from going of one illusion to just another it think one need any kind of 'controlling instance' from the outside. Since there are no objective ways to judge my inner state of being, the only thing I can think of is someone who already passed the way I wanna go and knows what's about to come. Again not helping me to overcome the obstacles but just to tell me, when I euphorically walk into a wrong direction.

But so far I never seriously searched for a Zen teacher in my city. My Ego kept telling my I was too busy ^^

 

[Straw Dog]

But so far I never seriously searched for a Zen teacher in my city. My Ego kept telling my I was too busy ^^

It may be useful to find a teacher. Personally, I learn directly from dao. Being simply human filled with mindfulness, compassion, and gratitude re-aligns essential nature. You could let life be your teacher. It is more important to have mindful fellowship and simply meditate. I don't wish you good luck, but I do trust the best of skill within!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm dealing with philosophy and buddhism by myself ever since. But the more I learn the more I have the feeling, I need someome who is able to judge what would be a real 'awakening' experience on the way to satori and what is just an illusion, made up by my own mind. I have no tools to tell by myself if I am still on the right path or if I follow just some phantasies. Everything I can think of comes from my inside and is therefore depending on the progress I make. I expect my Ego to trick and mislead me whenever it sees the possibility to rescue itself. To prevent from going of one illusion to just another it think one need any kind of 'controlling instance' from the outside. Since there are no objective ways to judge my inner state of being, the only thing I can think of is someone who already passed the way I wanna go and knows what's about to come. Again not helping me to overcome the obstacles but just to tell me, when I euphorically walk into a wrong direction.

But so far I never seriously searched for a Zen teacher in my city. My Ego kept telling my I was too busy ^^

In every case where you have used 'I' above, this is the ego speaking. The 'I' can never realize awakening, and if it imagines it can, then it is a serious error of delusion that will forever prevent awakening.

Still the mind and realize the state of mind of non-duality and the 'I' will not arise.

There is That which was never born, was never created, nor did it evolve,
If this were not so, there would be no refuge from birth, creation, or evolution,
That is the end of suffering,
That is nirvana. - Buddha

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm dealing with philosophy and buddhism by myself ever since. But the more I learn the more I have the feeling, I need someome who is able to judge what would be a real 'awakening' experience on the way to satori and what is just an illusion, made up by my own mind. I have no tools to tell by myself if I am still on the right path or if I follow just some phantasies. Everything I can think of comes from my inside and is therefore depending on the progress I make. I expect my Ego to trick and mislead me whenever it sees the possibility to rescue itself. To prevent from going of one illusion to just another it think one need any kind of 'controlling instance' from the outside. Since there are no objective ways to judge my inner state of being, the only thing I can think of is someone who already passed the way I wanna go and knows what's about to come. Again not helping me to overcome the obstacles but just to tell me, when I euphorically walk into a wrong direction.

But so far I never seriously searched for a Zen teacher in my city. My Ego kept telling my I was too busy ^^

I would never discourage anyone who seeks a teacher, yet regarding the aforementioned you would be hard pressed to find a good Zen teacher who would do somethin that gawdawful! *grin*

Realisations fall squarely and entirely on you, as well as that in judging state of being, satori, and whatever crops up in the noodles there.

No Zen teacher can ever make those determinations, only you, yet that said, they are amazingly uncanny in noticing any "pitfalls" and the good ones will not hesitate an instance in either giving one a good swift kick up the *** or leaving you to do your own wallowing in figuring it out. Eventually. ......someday. .....maybe.........sooner............later....never.....always............transmission occurs between teacher and student pristine and clear illumination. .......Not to be confused with formal transmission as a dharma heir.

Word of caution. Prepare for a lot of false alarms and kyosaku stick beatings.....unless you find it enjoyable....then, in that case, forget the last part.

 

[Bruce Planck]

Haha, alright guys, thanks! I think, the way I chose is not completely wrong, I actually feel quite good with it. But sometimes I'm not sure whether I want too much or not enough. Consulting a teacher may give me some new inspiration. When I did, I will tell you my experiences

Keep it up!