• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

You don't even have to be a Christian to be a Christian anymore.

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
This statement, posted by Man of Faith was found in another thread. First, I'd like to know just what he means by that statement, because I see it as a fairly good example of an exclusive stance. Second, what are the implications of an exclusive Christianity? Is that what Jesus advocated? Third, if it's determined that Xy is wholly inclusive, what does that mean for the authority structure as it stands today, and what would a wholly inclusive Xy look like?

[edit] the second and third questions are open to all Christians.
 
Last edited:

jtartar

Well-Known Member
This statement, posted by Man of Faith was found in another thread. First, I'd like to know just what he means by that statement, because I see it as a fairly good example of an exclusive stance. Second, what are the implications of an exclusive Christianity? Is that what Jesus advocated? Third, if it's determined that Xy is wholly inclusive, what does that mean for the authority structure as it stands today, and what would a wholly inclusive Xy look like?

[edit] the second and third questions are open to all Christians.

sojourner,
Probably he was talking about the difference religion is in today's world.
In the Jewish system, all Jews were under the Mosaic Law Covenant. They were born a Jew so they were under the Law Code. They did not have to do anything to prove what they were, they were required, as a Jew to obey THE LAW. If they did not obey, or tried to talk anyone into following a different way, they were required to be put to death.
Now, today it is much different, no one is really born a Christian. It is true that a child, until it reaches the age of being able to make his own discisions, will receive whatever his parents receive, in the way of reward or retribution.
All a person has to do today is to say they are a Christian and they are Christian. This is what is called a nominal Christian, name only, and is not a true Christian.
Just like joining any club, or in this case, a Brotherhood, a person must live up to certain qualifications to be acceptable to God. A person must make a personal discision, must pledge himself to God and become a baptized member of the Christian Brotherhood, 1Pet 2:17, 5:9,10. Then a Christian is required to endure, living up to the Christian requirements until the end, to be saved, Matt 24:13, 10:22.
At 2Tim 3:12, it is stated that all those who live a godly life in Christ WILL be persecuted. If you consider the 13th chapter of Matt especially verses 18-29, you will see prophesies about why some do not endure until the end.
It is not easy to continue as a true Christian, because you must do positive things to help people, not just refrain from hurting others,as in the Mosaic Law, Matt 7:12, Gal 6:2, John 13:34,35, Rom 13:8-10. The Bible says that we must work out our own salvation, Phil 2:12. The Bible tells us that faith without works is DEAD in itrself, that works, as well as faith is required, because with works, you faith is perfected, James 2:14-18, 22, 24, 26.
Just like growing old is not for sissies, neither is being a Christian, 2Tim 1:7, Heb 10:36-39.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
sojourner,
Probably he was talking about the difference religion is in today's world.
In the Jewish system, all Jews were under the Mosaic Law Covenant. They were born a Jew so they were under the Law Code. They did not have to do anything to prove what they were, they were required, as a Jew to obey THE LAW. If they did not obey, or tried to talk anyone into following a different way, they were required to be put to death.
Now, today it is much different, no one is really born a Christian. It is true that a child, until it reaches the age of being able to make his own discisions, will receive whatever his parents receive, in the way of reward or retribution.
All a person has to do today is to say they are a Christian and they are Christian. This is what is called a nominal Christian, name only, and is not a true Christian.
Just like joining any club, or in this case, a Brotherhood, a person must live up to certain qualifications to be acceptable to God. A person must make a personal discision, must pledge himself to God and become a baptized member of the Christian Brotherhood, 1Pet 2:17, 5:9,10. Then a Christian is required to endure, living up to the Christian requirements until the end, to be saved, Matt 24:13, 10:22.
At 2Tim 3:12, it is stated that all those who live a godly life in Christ WILL be persecuted. If you consider the 13th chapter of Matt especially verses 18-29, you will see prophesies about why some do not endure until the end.
It is not easy to continue as a true Christian, because you must do positive things to help people, not just refrain from hurting others,as in the Mosaic Law, Matt 7:12, Gal 6:2, John 13:34,35, Rom 13:8-10. The Bible says that we must work out our own salvation, Phil 2:12. The Bible tells us that faith without works is DEAD in itrself, that works, as well as faith is required, because with works, you faith is perfected, James 2:14-18, 22, 24, 26.
Just like growing old is not for sissies, neither is being a Christian, 2Tim 1:7, Heb 10:36-39.
So, by the highlighted section of your post, you would identify as one who advocates for an exclusive approach to Christianity. Can you answer the follow up questions, please?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Wasn't there something about ....'keep My sayings'.....?

Defining Christian are we?

'Many there will be that will say....'Lord! Lord!'....
'And I know them not'.

Seems then to be Christian....it is what you declare.
And then if He agrees.
There's also the entire gospel of Matthew, who declares that we let the wheat and the weeds grow together, and leave it to God to sort out.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Christianity as taught in the NT is a faith in which "wolves in sheeps clothing" try to infiltrate the community of believers and introduce doctrines whiche deny the faith and lead people into sin (Matt 7). That being the case, the fact that somebody is walking around claiming to be a Christian doesn't immediately mean that the church embraces them as a fellow believer. After all, even the devil is disguised as an angel of light (2 Cor 11). If we were justified by following the law it probably wouldn't matter too much who we believed Jesus to be. That's just not the case here. Man of Faith is absolutely correct in saying that the name "Christian" has been so watered down that it means nothing anymore. More and more it is used by people who claim to believe Jesus was nothing more than a gentle guy that told people to be nice to each other. It's almost as if anyone who believes in the "golden rule" qualifies as a "Christian"
 
Last edited:

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Christianity as taught in the NT is a faith in which "wolves in sheeps clothing" try to infiltrate the community of believers and introduce doctrines whiche deny the faith and lead people into sin (Matt 7). That being the case, the fact that somebody is walking around claiming to be a Christian doesn't immediately mean that the church embraces them as a fellow believer. After all, even the devil is disguised as an angel of light (2 Cor 11). If we were justified by following the law it probably wouldn't matter too much who we believed Jesus to be. That's just not the case here. Man of Faith is absolutely correct in saying that the name "Christian" has been so watered down that it means nothing anymore. More and more it is used by people who claim to believe Jesus was nothing more than a gentle guy that told people to be nice to each other. It's almost as if anyone who believes in the "golden rule" qualifies as a "Christian"
So who gets to decide who's a Christian and who's not?
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
So who gets to decide who's a Christian and who's not?

Certainly only God can judge the heart. However he does give us his Word as a tool of discernment so that we may judge which side people speak for. Every now and then, will a shepard mistaken a sheep for an actual wolf? Of course. Mistakes will happen and people will get hurt in the process. That doesn't mean we give up trying to protect the flock.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
***Mod Post***

Some posts as well as responses to them have been deleted from this thread.

Please refrain from posting in this thread if you do not identify as a Christian, as doing so violates Rule 10:

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums/Same Faith Debates/"Only Sections"
The DIR subforums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored blue, non-members of that area are limited only to respectful questions, and are not allowed to make any non-question posts.

-For any DIR or discussion sub-forum that is colored green, non-members of that area may make respectful posts that comply with the tenets and spirit of that area. This includes questions, as well as knowledgeable comments.

The Same Faith Debates subforum is specifically for debate between members of the same faith. Members that are not part of a same faith debate thread's selected faith may not post at all in those threads. The Political "Only" subforums are also used specifically for that group and may not be posted in by members that do not correspond to the political position of the subforum. These two forums are colored purple.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
  • It would seem all Christians believe in, and worship God.
  • All Christians believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus
  • Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God
  • some believe he is the Son of God
  • Some as part of a God head
  • Some that he is in some way indistinguishable from God.
The understandings of the relationship of God, his Son and the Holy Spirit
define the numerous Christian denominations.

Not all Denominations accept that all other denominations are Christian.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
  • It would seem all Christians believe in, and worship God.
  • All Christians believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus
  • Not all Christians believe that Jesus is God
  • some believe he is the Son of God
  • Some as part of a God head
  • Some that he is in some way indistinguishable from God.
The understandings of the relationship of God, his Son and the Holy Spirit
define the numerous Christian denominations.

Not all Denominations accept that all other denominations are Christian.

More precisely, all self identified "Christians" claim to follow the teachings of Jesus. Ultimately this question is decided by Scripture not post-modern philosophical principles.
 
Last edited:

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
More precisely, all self identified "Christians" claim to follow the teachings of Jesus. Ultimately this question is decided by Scripture not post-modern philosophical principles.

That is indeed the view of some mainly protestant denominations.
Though I doubt any Christians claim not to follow the teachings of Jesus.

Scripture is an important aspect of Christianity, but far from the only one.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Christianity as taught in the NT is a faith in which "wolves in sheeps clothing" try to infiltrate the community of believers and introduce doctrines whiche deny the faith and lead people into sin (Matt 7). That being the case, the fact that somebody is walking around claiming to be a Christian doesn't immediately mean that the church embraces them as a fellow believer. After all, even the devil is disguised as an angel of light (2 Cor 11). If we were justified by following the law it probably wouldn't matter too much who we believed Jesus to be. That's just not the case here. Man of Faith is absolutely correct in saying that the name "Christian" has been so watered down that it means nothing anymore. More and more it is used by people who claim to believe Jesus was nothing more than a gentle guy that told people to be nice to each other. It's almost as if anyone who believes in the "golden rule" qualifies as a "Christian"
What's the name "Christian" supposed to signify?
Who gets to decide if the signifiers are appropriately met?
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
What's the name "Christian" supposed to signify?
Who gets to decide if the signifiers are appropriately met?

I said it's determined by Scripture and its answers to certain questions. Some claim that Scripture offers no concrete answers due to the allegation that it can be interpreted to mean anything. I say that is only the case if the interpreter has no integrity.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I said it's determined by Scripture and its answers to certain questions. Some claim that Scripture offers no concrete answers due to the allegation that it can be interpreted to mean anything. I say that is only the case if the interpreter has no integrity.
But any number of interpretations are valid.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I believe many will be surprised who inherits the Kingdom of God and who do not.

People do not realize many times that all men are sinners and only the forgiven will be with him.

Men and women in prison will be there and many a preacher will not.

The righteousness of our Lord will justify his judgement. I trust in him and him only to look into the hearts and sort the wheat from the chaft.

The lambs book of life will not be as thick a book as some folks believe it to be.

Many a Christian will receive the judgement they invoked while here on earth. Why would a Christian judge another when all men are sinners and our best works are nothing but filthy rags before him?

Not one of us deserve the kingdom of God but by his saving grace. The thing is, many a Christians faith is dead and they just don't realise this. They bear no fruit and do no inspection.

He without sin cast the first stone!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I believe many will be surprised who inherits the Kingdom of God and who do not.

People do not realize many times that all men are sinners and only the forgiven will be with him.

Men and women in prison will be there and many a preacher will not.

The righteousness of our Lord will justify his judgement. I trust in him and him only to look into the hearts and sort the wheat from the chaft.

The lambs book of life will not be as thick a book as some folks believe it to be.

Many a Christian will receive the judgement they invoked while here on earth. Why would a Christian judge another when all men are sinners and our best works are nothing but filthy rags before him?

Not one of us deserve the kingdom of God but by his saving grace. The thing is, many a Christians faith is dead and they just don't realise this. They bear no fruit and do no inspection.

He without sin cast the first stone!

If the judgement was right now do you trust you are more likely to be in the book than not?
 
Top