Would you

[ShivaFan]

No penance for eating honey. It's not a sin. However, lacto-vegetarianism for Hindus, Jains and Buddhists is a slippery slope ultimately condoning himsā unless one lives on a dairy farm, or obtains milk from one. Even then, unless the cow past her prime and ability to produce milk is then kept as a family member or pet and allowed to live out her life naturally (we can't forget the bulls too), she's most likely shipped off to a slaughterhouse for pet food, leather and gelatin. I'm sorry to say it, but even in temple when performing abhishekam with commercial milk, yogurt and ghee made from commercial butter is contributing to the demise of gomata.

The answer, imo, is that we do the best we can in adhering to ahimsā. Especially being mindful and perhaps saying a prayer of thanks for the sacrifice gomata is making when she is raised for dairy production. The California cheese tv adverts talking about happy cows are somewhat misleading because they don't describe that those cows may become very unhappy when they stop producing milk. Of course, most people wouldn't care anyway.

What were we talking about?

Namaste and thank you, it is really shocking and sad to think about gomata being betrayed by cruel masters once she cannot give anymore milk. I can remember as a child the reaction and sad hurt feeling of other neighborhood children, no matter background or religion, asking WHY? WHY? if they happen to hear of such things. Om Namah Sivaya]

 

[Jainarayan]

Yes, it is sad and it gives me no pleasure to say it. But those are the sorts of things we tend to not be mindful of, especially when we think we are doing right. We may be doing right as best we can, but the bad part is still there, which is not much we can do about.

 

[Knight of Albion]

The things 'we' do to cows... Such beautiful, gentle creatures.

I'm reminded of the beautiful vegan saying:
'The best thing about being a vegan? Being able to look a cow in the eye and not feel ashamed.'

I have never been to India so I cannot comment on the matter, but here in England numerous healthy and nutritious vegan plant milks are available ; soya, almond, hazelnut, rice, oat, coconut...
There is a humane alternative.

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Have you ever noticed how often when children are reacting upon hearing such sad things, they often sort of reach out with the hand in sort of a clutch position towards for example the arm, but almost as if perhaps in their mind they are reaching out to save gomata, or the deer or squirrel or fish in their mind hoping some magic power, and how they will try to put their face VERY, very close to the other person or adult as if to have the eyes penetrating right in?

Many children instinctively know.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

Eating meat after being vegetarian for 10 years gave me stomach cramps and diarrhea after 6 hours of eating 200 grams of lean chicken breast (twice in a row).

Nothing particular would happen to you. If you started with fish, which are easier to digest and then went on to small amounts of white (land) mean once per day for a couple of days and then gradually increased the amount, you'd be probably be fine.

''then gradually increased the amount''
why would one want to do that ???

 

[Vinayaka]

namaskaram :namaste



''then gradually increased the amount''
why would one want to do that ???

My cousin fell into this category. She became vegetarian solely for health reasons, not for religious ones, and has now morphed back into a meat eater. Something to do with some deficiency or another where the doctor advised it.

But for those of us who did it purely for religious reasons, or primarily for that, I don't see why we'd return.

There are also those folks who were born vegetarian and, after moving to the west, started eating meat, because they couldn't find Indian food, and culturally they'd never heard of western vegetarian food.

I knew a couple of Tamil like that but have since gone back to vegetarian. They got told weird things like, "You need meat in this cold climate."

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram siva fan ji :namaste

Namaste

Have you ever noticed how often when children are reacting upon hearing such sad things, they often sort of reach out with the hand in sort of a clutch position towards for example the arm, but almost as if perhaps in their mind they are reaching out to save gomata, or the deer or squirrel or fish in their mind hoping some magic power, and how they will try to put their face VERY, very close to the other person or adult as if to have the eyes penetrating right in?

Many children instinctively know.

Om Namah Sivaya

''many children instinctively know '' yes they are not so conditioned by maya they still have natural compasion and see all beings with a sence of equality , very often I have seen this with freinds children when they learn that I dont eat meat they simply ask why , and very often their responce is amazing , and you can guess how popular I am when they tell their parents that they dont want to eat animals any more ..... oh dear , if asked a direct question I am not going to lie you dont even have to give any elaborate explanation either with these children .

 

[Kalidas]

My cousin fell into this category. She became vegetarian solely for health reasons, not for religious ones, and has now morphed back into a meat eater. Something to do with some deficiency or another where the doctor advised it.

But for those of us who did it purely for religious reasons, or primarily for that, I don't see why we'd return.

There are also those folks who were born vegetarian and, after moving to the west, started eating meat, because they couldn't find Indian food, and culturally they'd never heard of western vegetarian food.

I knew a couple of Tamil like that but have since gone back to vegetarian. They got told weird things like, "You need meat in this cold climate."

I had an acquaintance of mine say I was stupid. Because Red meat has an enzyme in it that our livers can not work without. So to stopping eating red meat can lead to liver failure

I actually looked it up to get the facts straight there ARE enzymes in Red meat that effect the liver, in NEGATIVE ways. Apparently red meat INCREASES your chances of Liver failure. Also increases your chances of getting colon and stomach cancer. I don't think our bodies are meant to eat meat it takes DAYS to full digest and pass. that means for DAYS an animal carcass is just sitting their rotting in your intestines! That sounds dangerous.
Which is another thing about this cloned meat stuff I gotta think about, its still meat technically. which means all the bad health effects WILL go with it. I don't think it is VERY adharmic being it doesn't lead to any death, but it isn't any healthier.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram maitra varini ji :namaste

Namaste, Bhaginī-ji:



That quote wasn't about sacrificing. It was just me being goofy and saying that I can sacrifice because I have Their protection - it was just a joke hehehe. The quote had nothing to do with yagyas involving sacrifices though. I didn't mean to give off that impression. My b.

GOOFY ? what is goofy your english is so wonderfull then you say ''GOOFY''

Favoritism, centricity, superiority complexes, and exclusivity plagues those without dharma.

M.V.

now here you have hit the nail on the head !....''centricity'' 'ahamkara' , it is impossible for their minds to stretch beyond their own experience .

we are so fortunate , sanatana dharma tries to take us beyond our narow confines :namaste

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram vinayaka ji :namaste

My cousin fell into this category. She became vegetarian solely for health reasons, not for religious ones, and has now morphed back into a meat eater. Something to do with some deficiency or another where the doctor advised it.

yes , I have seen this also it is easy to slip back if this is your only motivation .

Oh but I also did it for health reasons ......the health of the cow , the sheep , the fish and the bird , etc .....

But for those of us who did it purely for religious reasons, or primarily for that, I don't see why we'd return.

jai jai :namaste

There are also those folks who were born vegetarian and, after moving to the west, started eating meat, because they couldn't find Indian food, and culturally they'd never heard of western vegetarian food.
I knew a couple of Tamil like that but have since gone back to vegetarian. They got told weird things like, "You need meat in this cold climate."

so sad , I have also met indians here that were told that they needed to eat meet for the fat , exactly as you say , because of the climate , who told them this ???

to be born vegetarian is such a wonderfull blessing .

 

[En'me]

namaskaram :namaste



''then gradually increased the amount''
why would one want to do that ???

Well, I was speaking in terms of starting with small amounts of meat to let your digestive system get used to digesting meat again. Then, after it's done that, you would increase your intake of meat so that you can get suffucient amounts of macro/micronutrients.

Hope this doesn't confuse you more.

My cousin fell into this category. She became vegetarian solely for health reasons, not for religious ones, and has now morphed back into a meat eater. Something to do with some deficiency or another where the doctor advised it.

But for those of us who did it purely for religious reasons, or primarily for that, I don't see why we'd return.

There are also those folks who were born vegetarian and, after moving to the west, started eating meat, because they couldn't find Indian food, and culturally they'd never heard of western vegetarian food.

I knew a couple of Tamil like that but have since gone back to vegetarian. They got told weird things like, "You need meat in this cold climate."

Hwell. I went vegetarian for religious reasons. Disease forced me to take a more objective look at nutrition. I wish I could thrive on a vegeterian/vegan diet.
I guess in the clash between morality and omnivorism, some choose the former. I chose the latter.


Now for de-derailing the topic :

Eat beef or any other type of meat (if you are full vegetarian)if it were cloned? Cloned meat has become a bit of a big story for a while. Peta supports the idea, now I want to know what you guy all think.

I'm not a "full" vegeterian anymore, but, if the cloned meat was just specifically cloned parts of an animal, not the animal whole intact, I would so go for it it's not even funny. As long as it's healthy and all, I don't see the problem it in.

There's ofcourse the issue with ethics, but that may be more of an issue of (mis)use of the technology.

 

[Poeticus]

GOOFY ? what is goofy your english is so wonderfull then you say ''GOOFY''

Namaste,

Alas! Behold my playful and childish character! Muahaha!

M.V.

 

[Maya3]

namaskaram :namaste


jai jai , the common vegan veiw is that it takes the food away from the infant bees , .....bees collect nectar and produce honey to feed their young commercial bee keepers take this and give the bees sugar water , .... this is theft , and leaves the bees with substandard food for their young .

much like my issues with the dairy industry , ..,if we took only what was surplus after the mother had fed her young then that would be fine , but the comercial milk and honey industrys are too greedy they take it all , ...if they canot be trusted to behave ethicaly then it is adharmic for me to take their products .

Good point. I can hear people say, " oh come on they are just insects!!!"
Yeah...and now the bees are getting sick and are dying and people are starting to realize that without them we would have no food and we would die.
Yeah just insects...

Maya

 

[Maija]

Eat beef or any other type of meat (if you are full vegetarian)if it were cloned? Cloned meat has become a bit of a big story for a while. Peta supports the idea, now I want to know what you guy all think.

I don't eat those fake veggie sausages.

WHY?

It's like giving someone who doesn't like the taste of tomatoes, something tomato flavored. The person will just tell you... "I don't care if it's real tomatoes or not--I don't like them.."

So, no I would not.

 

[Knight of Albion]

namaskaram siva fan ji :namaste



''many children instinctively know '' yes they are not so conditioned by maya they still have natural compasion and see all beings with a sence of equality , very often I have seen this with freinds children when they learn that I dont eat meat they simply ask why , and very often their responce is amazing , and you can guess how popular I am when they tell their parents that they dont want to eat animals any more ..... oh dear , if asked a direct question I am not going to lie you dont even have to give any elaborate explanation either with these children .

A lovely post, Ratikala.

I couldn't resist posting this video...

This young fellow beautifully exemplifies that spirit of 'natural compassion' in all children and of which you speak...
I have encountered many highly educated and intelligent people who have made the case for vegetarianism in the most eloquent and impassioned manner, but I have never met anyone who put it so beautifully as young Luiz.
And he is the only one who managed to put a tear in my eye doing so...
[youtube]SrU03da2arE[/youtube]
Luiz Antonio - Why He Doesn't Want to Eat Octopus (Translated into English) - YouTube

 

[Knight of Albion]

Going back to the thread topic...

The one and only thing I can say in its favour is that it will at least reduce animal suffering and the number of animals killed - and as livestock production is the main factor fueling deforestation, it may also help preserve what remains of the natural world.

 

[Kalidas]

I don't eat those fake veggie sausages.

WHY?

It's like giving someone who doesn't like the taste of tomatoes, something tomato flavored. The person will just tell you... "I don't care if it's real tomatoes or not--I don't like them.."

So, no I would not.

I eat them all the time. Being a big time carnivore for about my entire life I have become accustomed to the taste. And I have no problem with that to me meat is tasty but it is also murder so I choose not eat it now, to forgo my pleasure to save their lives(hopefully). So I do eat that fake veggie imitation meat stuff. I think they taste great!

 

[Zanuku]

I would eat it.
"It's still beef isn't it?"

 

[ratikala]

A lovely post, Ratikala.

I couldn't resist posting this video...

This young fellow beautifully exemplifies that spirit of 'natural compassion' in all children and of which you speak...
I have encountered many highly educated and intelligent people who have made the case for vegetarianism in the most eloquent and impassioned manner, but I have never met anyone who put it so beautifully as young Luiz.
And he is the only one who managed to put a tear in my eye doing so...
[youtube]SrU03da2arE[/youtube]
Luiz Antonio - Why He Doesn't Want to Eat Octopus (Translated into English) - YouTube

jai jai luiz stick to your guns dont eat the octopus ,

 

[Sb1995]

I eat them all the time. Being a big time carnivore for about my entire life I have become accustomed to the taste. And I have no problem with that to me meat is tasty but it is also murder so I choose not eat it now, to forgo my pleasure to save their lives(hopefully). So I do eat that fake veggie imitation meat stuff. I think they taste great!

Same, I eat vege burgers all the time on the days I cannot eat meat.