apostle_ndr
Member
My first post. Sorry to start a new thread on a topic already touched by Fire Empire, but I think Fire Empire didn't do justice for the question by limiting it to Christianity and asking from a truly hypothetical standpoint. So, I'll start by saying, like FE, that this is not to offend but to enlighten. I'll use quotes from reliable figures to accentuate my points because nobody says it with more impact than dead people 
.
First, a lot of people do need religion I know. People afraid of the unknown are forced to believe in something that lightens this fear, that gives them hope for something better. I'll admit that religion not only sprung from fear, but also from oppression.
"Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?" - Arthur C. Clarke
Second, it could be argued that religion does no harm. On the flipside, religion does GREAT harm. It limits us intellectually, prevents us from discovering new things, and creates barriers between social classes. Every religion despite it's original intentions does more harm than good by creating social dysfunction and holding back progress.
"I do think the Roman Catholic religion is a disease of the mind which has a particular epidemiology similar to that of a virus... Religion is a terrific meme. That's right. But that doesn't make it true and I care about what's true. Smallpox virus is a terrific virus. It does its job magnificently well. That doesn't mean that it's a good thing. It doesn't mean that I don't want to see it stamped out." - Richard Dawkins
meme - virus of thought
The commonly accepted picture of a Christian, for example, has changed greatly over the years. How followers can change without their source of beliefs (the bible) changing is beyond me, it's either cultural or political. People can't be expected to still follow the exact same teachings of a 2,000 year old book.. people like to talk about the parts of the Bible that make sense and ignore the parts that don't because, like it or not, Christianity was founded by primitives who didn't know that much about the world (proof that they were not divine or inspired by divinity). This is true of all religions, a religion being no more than a widespread cult whose institutions are not taxed by the government.
Forgive me if these ideas are offensive but I feel they are necessary to explore the topic. I only use Christianity primarily because I'm most familiar with it due to my geographic location, a thousand apologies.
Christians generally dislike the idea of science discovering that the Bible lied. Some like to say that science and faith don't contradict each other at all, but this is similar to saying that a drunk man is as gentle as a sober man. To be a scientist is to seek to know, with knowledge being the opposite of faith. To be faithful is to ignore all opposing proof to maintain selected belief. Thus, the faithful oppose science, oppose knowledge, for fear that it may disprove their own beliefs.
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
"All thinking men are atheists." - Ernest Hemingway
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense." - Voltaire
Like I said, the image of a Christian has changed.. but why? God didn't come down and revise the Bible. The Christians revised their interpretations to go along with current thinking, and they'll continue to do this as long as scientists and freethinkers continue to discover and create. If a thinking Christian can admit to this, that his religion is indeed not static and that his beliefs are based on society rather than God, what's so wrong about religion? Nothing, but by realizing this the man seeks to be Christian.
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means." - George Bernard Shaw
"It is true that the modern Christian is less robust, but that is not thanks to Christianity; it is thanks to the generations of freethinkers, who, from the Renaissance to the present day, have made Christians ashamed of many of their traditional beliefs." - Bertrand Russell
"Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world." - Voltaire
Not only this, but Christianity (pardon again, I'm used to using this religion) holds back discovery. After Colombus convinced the Queen of Spain to let him sail to India by heading west, there were numerous assassination attempts by crewmembers who wanted to go back for fear of falling over the edge of the world into Hell (because they didn't know any better, just like the Hebrews who threw the Bible together). When Galileo Galilei realized that the earth was revolving around the sun and not the other way around, like the Bible taught, he was put under house arrest for the rest of his life! Current applications, stem cell research and evolution and cloning is being debased by Christians while non-Christian countries are excelling in these programs. With the re-rise of Christianity thanks to the Bush administration and other current leaders who wish to make the U.S. a theocracy, the value of the American dollar is going to drop pretty quickly...
"We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake." - Catherine Fahringer
Forgive me if I offended, but I only seek to enlighten. Your Jesus Christ offended the people in power at the time, can't I be doing the same thing? I'll leave you with a few more quotes and sorry for using so many. You can say that I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, won't bother me none.
"The pioneers and missionaries of religion have been the real cause of more trouble and war than all other classes of mankind." - Edgar Allen Poe
"During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry." - Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)
.First, a lot of people do need religion I know. People afraid of the unknown are forced to believe in something that lightens this fear, that gives them hope for something better. I'll admit that religion not only sprung from fear, but also from oppression.
"Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?" - Arthur C. Clarke
Second, it could be argued that religion does no harm. On the flipside, religion does GREAT harm. It limits us intellectually, prevents us from discovering new things, and creates barriers between social classes. Every religion despite it's original intentions does more harm than good by creating social dysfunction and holding back progress.
"I do think the Roman Catholic religion is a disease of the mind which has a particular epidemiology similar to that of a virus... Religion is a terrific meme. That's right. But that doesn't make it true and I care about what's true. Smallpox virus is a terrific virus. It does its job magnificently well. That doesn't mean that it's a good thing. It doesn't mean that I don't want to see it stamped out." - Richard Dawkins
meme - virus of thought
The commonly accepted picture of a Christian, for example, has changed greatly over the years. How followers can change without their source of beliefs (the bible) changing is beyond me, it's either cultural or political. People can't be expected to still follow the exact same teachings of a 2,000 year old book.. people like to talk about the parts of the Bible that make sense and ignore the parts that don't because, like it or not, Christianity was founded by primitives who didn't know that much about the world (proof that they were not divine or inspired by divinity). This is true of all religions, a religion being no more than a widespread cult whose institutions are not taxed by the government.
Forgive me if these ideas are offensive but I feel they are necessary to explore the topic. I only use Christianity primarily because I'm most familiar with it due to my geographic location, a thousand apologies.
Christians generally dislike the idea of science discovering that the Bible lied. Some like to say that science and faith don't contradict each other at all, but this is similar to saying that a drunk man is as gentle as a sober man. To be a scientist is to seek to know, with knowledge being the opposite of faith. To be faithful is to ignore all opposing proof to maintain selected belief. Thus, the faithful oppose science, oppose knowledge, for fear that it may disprove their own beliefs.
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
"All thinking men are atheists." - Ernest Hemingway
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense." - Voltaire
Like I said, the image of a Christian has changed.. but why? God didn't come down and revise the Bible. The Christians revised their interpretations to go along with current thinking, and they'll continue to do this as long as scientists and freethinkers continue to discover and create. If a thinking Christian can admit to this, that his religion is indeed not static and that his beliefs are based on society rather than God, what's so wrong about religion? Nothing, but by realizing this the man seeks to be Christian.
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means." - George Bernard Shaw
"It is true that the modern Christian is less robust, but that is not thanks to Christianity; it is thanks to the generations of freethinkers, who, from the Renaissance to the present day, have made Christians ashamed of many of their traditional beliefs." - Bertrand Russell
"Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd and bloody religion that has ever infected the world." - Voltaire
Not only this, but Christianity (pardon again, I'm used to using this religion) holds back discovery. After Colombus convinced the Queen of Spain to let him sail to India by heading west, there were numerous assassination attempts by crewmembers who wanted to go back for fear of falling over the edge of the world into Hell (because they didn't know any better, just like the Hebrews who threw the Bible together). When Galileo Galilei realized that the earth was revolving around the sun and not the other way around, like the Bible taught, he was put under house arrest for the rest of his life! Current applications, stem cell research and evolution and cloning is being debased by Christians while non-Christian countries are excelling in these programs. With the re-rise of Christianity thanks to the Bush administration and other current leaders who wish to make the U.S. a theocracy, the value of the American dollar is going to drop pretty quickly...
"We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake." - Catherine Fahringer
Forgive me if I offended, but I only seek to enlighten. Your Jesus Christ offended the people in power at the time, can't I be doing the same thing? I'll leave you with a few more quotes and sorry for using so many. You can say that I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, won't bother me none
."The pioneers and missionaries of religion have been the real cause of more trouble and war than all other classes of mankind." - Edgar Allen Poe
"During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry." - Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)
