Would Christ be Classified as a Liberal or Conservative by Today's Standards?

[Shadow Wolf]

"In 1847, the League of the Just, a secret society made up of revolutionary German workers living in London, asked Marx to join their organization. Marx obliged and with Engels renamed the group the Communist League and planned to unite it with other German worker committees across Europe. The pair were commissioned to draw up a manifesto summarizing the doctrines of the League. "
(history.com)

Yup. 'Tis a fact, just as it's a fact Marx and Engels did not invent communism. Hunter-gatherer societies are evidence of this. Jesus' communal living is evidence of this. The early Christians who lived in communes are evidence of this. Jesus would have had a similar set up of a religious-commune, where there is no class and everything is owned and shared equally.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Didn't people live communally throughout most of their history; for several million years?
It's natural for us.

Yup. 'Tis a fact, just as it's a fact Marx and Engels did not invent communism. Hunter-gatherer societies are evidence of this. Jesus' communal living is evidence of this. The early Christians who lived in communes are evidence of this. Jesus would have had a similar set up of a religious-commune, where there is no class and everything is owned and shared equally.

Communism wasn't promoting family (mini commune) and communes. It's simply not the same. Communism was promoting class hatred, class war, idolizing working class, revolution and totalitarism to impose a classless and atheistic society.

2 communists:
“Comrade, your statement is factually incorrect.”
“Yes, it is. But it is politically correct.”

 

[Daniel-David-Joseph]

It's a hard call for me. I mean, he was a bit of both. Your thoughts?

View attachment 44802
Photo by Rodolfo Clix from Pexels

It is interesting to calculate whether Jesus, if he were alive today would be a liberal or a conservative. Through comparative analysis and an examination of historical data, we can certainly make some plausible and persuasive points in that regard. But, while I believe some worthwhile ideas have been put forth in the course of what is certainly a stimulating thought experiment, I know in my heart if Jesus were bearing witness in the world as it is today, if he walked among us in sandals and smock, he would want us to take care of each other; he would, in so many words want us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves.

He would be in the street marching with his brothers and sisters for health care and a minimum wage.

He would be raising his voice and his fist on behalf of those who claim the right to marry regardless of gender.

He would be raising his voice and his fist on behalf of an earth already dealing with the ravages of climate change, with fires that consume entire states, continents that are melting, hurricanes that wash away cities and towns.

I know in my heart that if Jesus were bearing witness in the world as it is today, he would march with those who are protesting against racial injustice, not with those who are protesting against the wearing of masks.

He would seek a middle ground that respects the life of the unborn and the life of those who actually give birth.

He would be a "terrorist" pulling down the statue of a confederate general because people who fought their countrymen for the right to keep slaves should not for that reason be honored in the public square. Similarly, he would fight for the retitling of schools, boulevards and military bases because the ordinary places in which we live our lives should not be named after the champions of servitude. Should not be daily reminders of a past for which some still secretly yearn. Should not be used to inspire fear in those for whom the past betokens the whip and the chain.

Likewise, I think we can safely say he would NOT support kidnapping children from their parents and holding them in cages; or the barring of refugees who are fleeing conditions most of us can barely imagine.

That he would not support using Gods name (or for that matter his), to legitimize conspiracy theories that demonize political opponents... That legitimize homophobia, Islamophobia or anti-Semitism.

Indeed, if Jesus were alive today there is no doubt in my mind that Steve Brannon would want to cut off his head, stick it on a pike and plant it on the White House lawn next to Dr Fauci. Something like that actually happened to him once, didn't it?

I know these things in my heart and I know them because like many, for me Jesus is alive today, alive in spirit, and alive in my dreams and it is in my dreams that he told me this:

"There's a lot of minds to change,
a lot of music to make,
a lot of hearts to open with song."

 

[PearlSeeker]

It is interesting to calculate whether Jesus, if he were alive today would be a liberal or a conservative. Through comparative analysis and an examination of historical data, we can certainly make some plausible and persuasive points in that regard. But, while I believe some worthwhile ideas have been put forth in the course of what is certainly a stimulating thought experiment, I know in my heart if Jesus were bearing witness in the world as it is today, if he walked among us in sandals and smock, he would want us to take care of each other; he would, in so many words want us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves.

He would be in the street marching with his brothers and sisters for health care and a minimum wage.

He would be raising his voice and his fist on behalf of those who claim the right to marry regardless of gender.

He would be raising his voice and his fist on behalf of an earth already dealing with the ravages of climate change, with fires that consume entire states, continents that are melting, hurricanes that wash away cities and towns.

I know in my heart that if Jesus were bearing witness in the world as it is today, he would march with those who are protesting against racial injustice, not with those who are protesting against the wearing of masks.

He would seek a middle ground that respects the life of the unborn and the life of those who actually give birth.

He would be a "terrorist" pulling down the statue of a confederate general because people who fought their countrymen for the right to keep slaves should not for that reason be honored in the public square. Similarly, he would fight for the retitling of schools, boulevards and military bases because the ordinary places in which we live our lives should not be named after the champions of servitude. Should not be daily reminders of a past for which some still secretly yearn. Should not be used to inspire fear in those for whom the past betokens the whip and the chain.

Likewise, I think we can safely say he would NOT support kidnapping children from their parents and holding them in cages; or the barring of refugees who are fleeing conditions most of us can barely imagine.

That he would not support using Gods name (or for that matter his), to legitimize conspiracy theories that demonize political opponents... That legitimize homophobia, Islamophobia or anti-Semitism.

Indeed, if Jesus were alive today there is no doubt in my mind that Steve Brannon would want to cut off his head, stick it on a pike and plant it on the White House lawn next to Dr Fauci. Something like that actually happened to him once, didn't it?

I know these things in my heart and I know them because like many, for me Jesus is alive today, alive in spirit, and alive in my dreams and it is in my dreams that he told me this:

"There's a lot of minds to change,
a lot of music to make,
a lot of hearts to open with song."

Jesus’s mission was not to make a change in society. It was being a change in the world.

"You are the light of the world."

"First take the log out of your own eye."

For example he showed little interest in Jewish rebellion movement and their actions.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Interesting thread. It demonstrates that people read the NT in ways that suit their preferred paradigm and then try to force Jesus into that paradigm no matter what it takes.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Interesting thread. It demonstrates that people read the NT in ways that suit their preferred paradigm and then try to force Jesus into that paradigm no matter what it takes.

"And they crucified him and divided his garments among them, casting lots for them, to decide what each should take." (Mark 15:24)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Communism wasn't promoting family (mini commune) and communes. It's simply not the same. Communism was promoting class hatred, class war, idolizing working class, revolution and totalitarism to impose a classless and atheistic society.

2 communists:
“Comrade, your statement is factually incorrect.”
“Yes, it is. But it is politically correct.”

If you won't take this seriously I'm done.
History does not agree with you. Communism does not agree with you. Marx amd Engels do not agree with you because they did not invent communism.

 

[PearlSeeker]

If you won't take this seriously I'm done.
History does not agree with you. Communism does not agree with you. Marx amd Engels do not agree with you because they did not invent communism.

The term "communism" was first used in 19th century. If not, prove me wrong. Some ideas are older of course.

 

[Valjean]

The term "communism" was first used in 19th century. If not, prove me wrong. Some ideas are older of course.

You're arguing words, not concepts. "Communism" as a formal political term may be new. As a social reality, though, it's been around a long time.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The term "communism" was first used in 19th century. If not, prove me wrong. Some ideas are older of course.

I already gave you examples of communities that function based on communist ideals.
You have to separate Marx and "Capital C Communism" from "lower case c communism." There's a big difference. One has only been around for a short while, the other goes back much further. Sort of like evolution. The ancient Greeks didn't have the word evolution, but much like communism the had an idea for it and were aware of the basic ideas behind it. Or like cholesterol. Leonardo Da Vinci didn't name it that, but he's the first person to document it (he also understood evolution and almost beat Darwin to the big discoveries).

 

[PearlSeeker]

You're arguing words, not concepts. "Communism" as a formal political term may be new. As a social reality, though, it's been around a long time.

I already gave you examples of communities that function based on communist ideals.
You have to separate Marx and "Capital C Communism" from "lower case c communism." There's a big difference.

There were many different concepts and practical realisations of ideal society. Why choose a "modern" term for one of them as an umbrella term for all?

Saying Christianity is an example of communism is like saying Communism (as established by Marx & co.) is an example of christianity*. It's the same mistake because the two are very different. You can't call a group who doesn't believe in God, Jesus as Christ, love as the highest rule in Kingdom of God ... a Christian group.


*The word communism comes from French word for community which comes from Church Latin ("communio") (known in NT Greek as "koinonia").

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There were many different concepts and practical realisations of ideal society. Why choose a "modern" term for one of them as an umbrella term for all?

Saying Christianity is an example of communism is like saying Communism (as established by Marx & co.) is an example of christianity*. It's the same mistake because the two are very different. You can't call a group who doesn't believe in God, Jesus as Christ, love as the highest rule in Kingdom of God ... a Christian group.


*The word communism comes from French word for community which comes from Church Latin ("communio") (known in NT Greek as "koinonia").

I wont be replying anymore. It cant productively continue with this fallacy of Marx inventing communism getting in the way.

 

[Daniel-David-Joseph]

Interesting thread. It demonstrates that people read the NT in ways that suit their preferred paradigm and then try to force Jesus into that paradigm no matter what it takes.

...But some paradigms are more likely than others...

 

[Zaha Torte]

It's a hard call for me. I mean, he was a bit of both. Your thoughts?

View attachment 44802
Photo by Rodolfo Clix from Pexels

In regards to truth He is a conservative.

In regards to Manmade junk He is a liberal.