Will I be forced to go to Heaven?

[Katzpur]

Imagine for a moment that God could actually force you to do something.

I think that, as God, He could. I just don't that that, as God, He would. It seems to go contrary to what He wants, which is for us to progress. We couldn't possibly reach our full potential if we were not free to chose for ourselves.

 

[lunamoth]

I think that, as God, He could. I just don't that that, as God, He would. It seems to go contrary to what He wants, which is for us to progress. We couldn't possibly reach our full potential if we were not free to chose for ourselves.

So what was the deal with God hardening Pharoh's heart?

 

[Gentoo]

I'm just curious as to what you think hell would be like (if there were such a thing and you would prefer it over heaven).

I can only speak for myself, but the typical image of Heaven is very Hell-ish to me.

 

[Katzpur]

So what was the deal with God hardening Pharoh's heart?

I think God knows each of us well enough to know what kinds of things will affect us. Perhaps God actually did harden Pharaoh's heart. On the other hand, maybe He just presented Pharaoh with the conditions He knew would cause His heart to harden. It's a fine line, I would agree.

 

[Katzpur]

I can only speak for myself, but the typical image of Heaven is very Hell-ish to me.

I gathered as much, but would you mind elaborating? I don't claim to know what either Heaven or Hell will actually be like, but if Hell is a place where we are made to be suffer (I'm thinking emotionally rather than physically) for the wrongs we have done, it doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. I really am not much into suffering. And feeling guilty isn't my idea of a good time either. Know what I mean?

 

[Gentoo]

I gathered as much, but would you mind elaborating? I don't claim to know what either Heaven or Hell will actually be like, but if Hell is a place where we are made to be suffer (I'm thinking emotionally rather than physically) for the wrongs we have done, it doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. I really am not much into suffering. And feeling guilty isn't my idea of a good time either. Know what I mean?

Again, I can only speak for myself here, the concept of Heaven makes more sense to me than the concept of Hell. I can't buy into Hell for reasons that would probably derail the thread. From what I gather from previous church going experiences in various different denominations, only the righteous will attain Heaven. Meaning according to them, only they will get in. If that's true, then there's no way I'd get in in the first place; but should I, on that off-chance, I'd have to listen to them talk about how right they were for eternity. Not fun.

Not only that, but like Danisty, I don't like the Christian God, and I wouldn't want to spend eternity in his dwelling. Plus, the thought of eternity is very frightening to me. So based on that alone, if I had to choose either or, Hell I go.

Does that help any?

 

[love]

I am thankful that God does not mandate our every move. I am thankful that He is not sitting there, waiting to throw us to Hell (or Heaven). Our journey begins with each new day.You choose to do good or you choose to do bad. Most of us have the ability to know the difference. Some of us don't have the freedom to choose.

 

[MaddLlama]

I gathered as much, but would you mind elaborating? I don't claim to know what either Heaven or Hell will actually be like, but if Hell is a place where we are made to be suffer (I'm thinking emotionally rather than physically) for the wrongs we have done, it doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. I really am not much into suffering. And feeling guilty isn't my idea of a good time either. Know what I mean?

Well, to me Heaven is a place where you praise God. Now, an eternity of having to praise a God I wasn't interested in worshiping in the first place doesn't sound like fun, and sounds like it would be miserable.
But on the other hand, eternity being tortured doesn't sound like fun either.

 

[Katzpur]

Again, I can only speak for myself here, the concept of Heaven makes more sense to me than the concept of Hell. I can't buy into it for reasons that would probably derail the thread. From what I gather from previous church going experiences in various different denominations, only the righteous will attain Heaven. Meaning according to them, only they will get in. If that's true, then there's no way I'd get in in the first place; but should I, on that off-chance, I'd have to listen to them talk about how right they were for eternity. Not fun.

LOL! Yeah, I've got to agree with you that that doesn't appeal to me either!

Not only that, but like Danisty, I don't like the Christian God, and I wouldn't want to spend eternity in his dwelling. Plus, the thought of eternity is very frightening to me. So based on that alone, if I had to choose either or, Hell I go.

So do you believe that you will simply cease to exist after this life or that you will be reborn into a new life or what?

 

[Katzpur]

Well, to me Heaven is a place where you praise God. Now, an eternity of having to praise a God I wasn't interested in worshiping in the first place doesn't sound like fun, and sounds like it would be miserable.

I'm starting to see why people don't like what they perceive as the "Christian God."

 

[Gentoo]

So do you believe that you will simply cease to exist after this life or that you will be reborn into a new life or what?

I personally believe in reincarnation, I don't know what happens after that last incarnation though, that's something I have to meditate on more

 

[Katzpur]

I personally believe in reincarnation, I don't know what happens after that last incarnation though, that's something I have to meditate on more

Do you have any sort of feel for the number of times you believe you have been incarnated before now, and who or what you may have been? Do you believe that each incarnation is an improvement over the last one or that in the next one you might end up living in squalor? Also, do you believe it is possible to be incarnated as something other than a human being? (Sorry for derailing the thread, Danisty. After Gentoo answers this question, I'll shut up. I'm just curious how this works.)

 

[Vassal]

FerventGodSeeker posted something in another thread that got me thinking:
I'm not a Christian. I don't like God and I have no interest in going to heaven. I do feel like I'm a good person though, so this has got me a bit worried. What if God thinks I'm good enough to go to heaven? We he make me go? I've heard others say that God will change my mind and make me love him. Nevermind that argument because I don't believe it's possible. I'm just curious as to whether God would force someone to go to heaven if they don't want to go.

I didn’t bother to read all the replies to this post, so maybe someone has already said this, but life on Earth is where you make your decision to go to heaven or not. No one is good enough to go to heaven, the only way to make it is through faith Jesus Christ. If you do not accept Christ now on Earth, then you will not be going to heaven, no matter how “good” of a person you are.

Romans 10:9-13 (NLT) 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.” 12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Also, keep in mind that Hell is not just separation from God, it is also eternal punishment for your disobedience. Contrary to the way the media portrays hell, Satan is not ruler and he will not escape punishment. Satan and all the demons will be subject to the same punishment that everyone else who does not accept Christ as their savior. I am not trying to sound judgmental or arrogant in any way, I just want to make sure you fully understand the choice you are making. Make sure you choose wisely.

Matthew 8:12 (NLT) But many Israelites—those for whom the Kingdom was prepared—will be thrown into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 13:42 (NLT) And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:50 (NLT) throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13 (NLT) Then the king said to his aides, ‘Bind his hands and feet and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Matthew 25:41 (NLT) “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.

Luke 13:28 (NLT) “There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, for you will see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God, but you will be thrown out.

Revelation 14:11 (NLT) The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name.”

Revelation 20:10 (NLT) Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Gentoo]

Do you have any sort of feel for the number of times you believe you have been incarnated before now, and who or what you may have been?

I have inclings about those, but nothing concrete.

Do you believe that each incarnation is an improvement over the last one or that in the next one you might end up living in squalor?

Yes and no, I believe each incarnation has a set of tasks to preform/lessons to be learned to attain a higher level of being (what that is, I don't know yet). If my next set of lessons involves me in the utmost poverty, so be it; if it has me living in a palace, so be it. So each incarnation is an improvement in terms of gathering knowledge but not in physical terms.

Also, do you believe it is possible to be incarnated as something other than a human being?

I definately do. Each species has it's own trials to overcome. I would like to be a cat... lie around, sleep, eat, sleep some more... good life

(Sorry for derailing the thread, Danisty. After Gentoo answers this question, I'll shut up. I'm just curious how this works.)

PM me if you have more questions, I LOVE questions!

 

[JayHawes]

Originally Posted by Ðanisty
FerventGodSeeker posted something in another thread that got me thinking:
I'm not a Christian. I don't like God and I have no interest in going to heaven. I do feel like I'm a good person though, so this has got me a bit worried. What if God thinks I'm good enough to go to heaven? We he make me go? I've heard others say that God will change my mind and make me love him. Nevermind that argument because I don't believe it's possible. I'm just curious as to whether God would force someone to go to heaven if they don't want to go.

1) Only those who accept Jesus go to Heaven, being good does not get you there becuase you are still a sinner and God does not allow sinners into Heaven.

2) God makes no one love him, you have to make the choice whether to love him or not.

3) You dont have to go to heaven if you dont want to, but for what reason would you deny eternity with God? For whatever reason you have, remember God is able to solve all problems and is able to wipe away any tear.

 

[des]

I agree. The Christian God, I think thru our "friends" the Calvinists, made religion/God, etc. very dull and lackluster. They were the original all work and no play folks. I'm not sure where all this stuff about harps and clouds came in, but I would guess some ancient art work.

Of course, I don't really believe in a heaven as a physical location. But the whole sorry notion of God punishing anyone who doesn't agree with the limited concepts some are proposing for religion into the gated community of hell-- for all eternity based on a limited life span of say 70 years), in a place which is supposedly worse than any of us can even imagine, well is just a nasty theology.

I read this lately and thought it was interesting: basically its this. The fundamentalist view of heaven is that good people don't go there. Goodness has zero to do with it, and it is only thru a fundamentalist type belief in Jesus/God. The idea of goodness having to do with it is supposedly a lie from Satan. Your belief in a legalistic type system is what is important. Not anything at all of how you lived your life. This is a topsy turvy idea of Love and Justice, and I find it repugnant, to say the least.

On this note: good people, like Gandhi, the Dali Lama, Mother Theresa (most Catholics do not hold these views), etc go to hell. While, all sorts of neferious characters like Pat Robertson,etc. go to heaven. Some people say, I wouldn't like to be with them!

--des

I'm starting to see why people don't like what they perceive as the "Christian God."

 

[Katzpur]

PM me if you have more questions, I LOVE questions!

Would you mind going to What is the Case for Re-incarnatiion? and answering my post #30 there? Thanks!

 

[MaddLlama]

3) You dont have to go to heaven if you dont want to, but for what reason would you deny eternity with God? For whatever reason you have, remember God is able to solve all problems and is able to wipe away any tear.

Why would someone who doesn't like God, doesn't believe in God, or chooses to worship a different God altogether want to spend an eternity with him? What would that do for a person who chooses not to be a Christian?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm just curious as to what you think hell would be like (if there were such a thing and you would prefer it over heaven).

Hell is a place seperated from God. I see the Christian God as an entity I do not feel is worthy of my praise, to put it briefly without heavily offending people.

 

[JayHawes]

Why would someone who doesn't like God, doesn't believe in God, or chooses to worship a different God altogether want to spend an eternity with him? What would that do for a person who chooses not to be a Christian?

That goes to the question of whether or not more than one god exists. If the Christian God is the only God and Heaven is his, then all other gods would be fasle and therefore having only his heaven to choose from what other place could you go to?

1) If you dont like God, or dont believe in God then presumably you dont beleive in the existsance of heaven or hell, and therefore wouldn't need to worry about going to heaven unless you have the doubt that God may exist...

2) If one chooses another god alltogether, or chooses not to believe in God he or she is not required to spend eternity in heaven with God. In the firs place...To enter Heaven you must: confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, and you shall be saved Romans 10:9. If you dont believe in Jesus then you dont have to worry about being "forced" to go to Heaven. Jesus taught that he was the only way to God (John 14:6), if you deny him, you are choosing not to go to heaven.