Why the cross at all?

[true blood]

The basic usage of the word "cross" in the bible can be 1, the literal wooden cross which Simon of Cyrene carried and upon which Jesus Christ was crucified,, 2, a figurative usage in which "bearing the cross" refers to voluntarily accepting and carrying out a responsibility given by one's master, and 3, another figurative usage, metalepsis, in which the "cross" stands for the death of Christ, but rather than dwelling on its negative features, accentuates the accomplishments and atoning merits of that death. As for whomever, wearing cross necklaces and such, I personally view it as like involving a commitment, a willing acceptance of responsibility resulting in public humiliation or in giving priority to the master's will over one's self, family, or friends.

 

[James the Persian]

I could be wrong here , but did not Christ come not to preach so much as to die for our sins ? If so , then wouldn't the cross be symbolic to that Death ?

Personally , I have always wondered why Christmas is such a big deal compared to Easter ? I would think it should be the other way around . But that is just my opinion .

Well, in my Church it is Pascha (Easter) that's the big deal and not the Nativity (Christmas). As Orthodox Pascha also rarely falls at the same time as western Easter that means that I can avoid the crass commercialism of both western festivals. The Nativity is still important to us as well but it has nothing like the importance of Pascha.

Of course, we use crosses just as much as the Roman Catholics do and cross ourselves frequently. There's an awful lot of symbolism tied up in the cross and a large number of different styles of crosses which express that symbolism differently. Personally, despite not being Russian, I prefer and wear a three barred cross with the bottom bar slanted (what we call a St. Andrew's cross) because I like the symbolism of it more - and of course, St. Andrew is also the Apostle to the Romanians, having preached in Dobrogea.

James

 

[michel]

.................."As Orthodox Pascha also rarely falls at the same time as western Easter that means that I can avoid the crass commercialism of both western festivals. The Nativity is still important to us as well but it has nothing like the importance of Pascha. "................


Have you got a spare room?

I couldn't agree with you more. Christmas, now that our kids have grown up, and there is no longer the delight and excitement of Christmas morning, Leaves mr 'cold' - we do have a tree, and a Christmas lunch - but it has lost the 'Zing' of the joy of seeing the young enjoy the featival.

 

[James the Persian]

.................."As Orthodox Pascha also rarely falls at the same time as western Easter that means that I can avoid the crass commercialism of both western festivals. The Nativity is still important to us as well but it has nothing like the importance of Pascha. "................


Have you got a spare room?

I couldn't agree with you more. Christmas, now that our kids have grown up, and there is no longer the delight and excitement of Christmas morning, Leaves mr 'cold' - we do have a tree, and a Christmas lunch - but it has lost the 'Zing' of the joy of seeing the young enjoy the featival.

Sorry, but we live in a two bedroomed terraced house - no extra room at all. Especially not this year as we're expecting my mother-in-law to stay for a while - we're expecting our second child in December.

James

 

[Melody]

true christians do not use the cross why not?

Judge not, lest ye be judged?

God knows what is in our heart...and that's enough for me.

 

[Scuba Pete]

God knows what is in our heart...and that's enough for me.

Well it scares the HELL out of me. Wait-a-minute... that's what it's supposed to do, huh?

 

[Katzpur]

true christians do not use the cross

Well, I don't use the cross, so I guess that makes me a "true Christian." Normally, I'd be flattered to be called a Christian, when much of the time I find I'm being told that I'm not one. But somehow I found that statement to be offensive. I believe there are many "true Christians" around who do use the cross. I can't recall of anywhere in the Bible where we're told that the use of the cross as a religious symbol disqualifies someone from being a Christian.

 

[SpiritElf]

May,
I wear a cross to remind me that Jesus took on my sins, and because of that I have eternal life. When I see that cross, I am reminded of all that he is, and it fills me with gratitude. I don't REVERE the cross. And MAY: leave off with this talk of "true Christians". It doesn't make sense, and just makes you look intolerant and ignorant.
Jesus was not the first and not the last to die on a cross. Millions of people died on crosses - what makes Jesus special was that he was the ONLY one to come back to live after dying on one.
But you are right the cross has pagan origins, as does the fish symbol. Both predate Christianity by thousands of years. (the cross comes in many different shapes, the most common one having it's bars of equal length, like a plus sign).
The Emperor Constantine did not invent the cross as a symbol for Christianity. It was already around and being used by Christians by the time he adopted it as his standard.
Your attempts to use ancient Greek (which I suspect you don't speak) to prove that Jesus did not die on a cross but on a stake (while questionable) is not even an issue. It doesn't matter if Jesus died on a cross, a stake, or a flagpole! The important part of the story you are neglecting is that he CAME BACK TO LIFE. By wearing a cross, we just remind ourselves of that.

 

[michel]

May,
I wear a cross to remind me that Jesus took on my sins, and because of that I have eternal life. When I see that cross, I am reminded of all that he is, and it fills me with gratitude. I don't REVERE the cross. And MAY: leave off with this talk of "true Christians". It doesn't make sense, and just makes you look intolerant and ignorant.
Jesus was not the first and not the last to die on a cross. Millions of people died on crosses - what makes Jesus special was that he was the ONLY one to come back to live after dying on one.
But you are right the cross has pagan origins, as does the fish symbol. Both predate Christianity by thousands of years. (the cross comes in many different shapes, the most common one having it's bars of equal length, like a plus sign).
The Emperor Constantine did not invent the cross as a symbol for Christianity. It was already around and being used by Christians by the time he adopted it as his standard.
Your attempts to use ancient Greek (which I suspect you don't speak) to prove that Jesus did not die on a cross but on a stake (while questionable) is not even an issue. It doesn't matter if Jesus died on a cross, a stake, or a flagpole! The important part of the story you are neglecting is that he CAME BACK TO LIFE. By wearing a cross, we just remind ourselves of that.

Hi Spiritelf;

Thank you - I wear a cross as a constant reminder of how Christ gave his life to us - I also wear it because I do not believe in Proselytizing (I have to cut & paste that horrible word each time) or trying to find converts; all the same - most people know the symbolism of the cross; if they happen to see that I am wearing one I will tell them...

 

[Humble_servant]

I think using the cross as a symbol of rememberance is ok.

However, it can also become a source of pride for some. Like how the American flag represents the struggles overcome by the nation, it became a symbol of pride. "Proud to be American" Or like how some people wear championship sportsware to remind them of the teams accomplishment, showing pride for their team.

 

[James the Persian]

I think using the cross as a symbol of rememberance is ok.

However, it can also become a source of pride for some. Like how the American flag represents the struggles overcome by the nation, it became a symbol of pride. "Proud to be American" Or like how some people wear championship sportsware to remind them of the teams accomplishment, showing pride for their team.

This is very true, and it's why we're usually told to wear ours inside our clothes. All Orthodox Christians should (and almost all do) wear a cross all the time but, apart from the women when they wear something a bit more low cut (hopefully not in Church!) you'll be hard pressed to see more than a chain.

In some ways it's a shame because my Russian soldier's cross has lead to some interesting discussions with people on the few times it's escaped from my T-shirt and been noticed (mainly because people are interested to know what it all means - see link below if anybody's interested), but at least hiding it most of the time avoids the temptation to use it as a badge of pride.

James

http://www.gallerybyzantium.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=byzg&Product_Code=3314-E

 

[SpiritElf]

James, that's interesting about the pride issue, because I was taught to be proud of my religion, and to wear the cross freely.
Christians were persecuted for many years and had to hide their faith, and now that (I think most of us) live in societies where its ok to be a Christian, we don't have to do that anymore. Unlike some countries where Christians are still actively persecuted. They should also wear their crosses freely, as a sign that God's Will will prevail.
But I understand completely the idea that pride can become arrogance.It's a fine line. Pride is ok when it's not being used to suggest that one is "better" and "superior" to another. God may be God, but we are not and our being Christians does not make us any better than anyone else, since we all are God's children.

BTW, I'm interested in how you became Romanian Orthodox. Where do you live?

 

[James the Persian]

James, that's interesting about the pride issue, because I was taught to be proud of my religion, and to wear the cross freely.
Christians were persecuted for many years and had to hide their faith, and now that (I think most of us) live in societies where its ok to be a Christian, we don't have to do that anymore. Unlike some countries where Christians are still actively persecuted. They should also wear their crosses freely, as a sign that God's Will will prevail.
But I understand completely the idea that pride can become arrogance.It's a fine line. Pride is ok when it's not being used to suggest that one is "better" and "superior" to another. God may be God, but we are not and our being Christians does not make us any better than anyone else, since we all are God's children.

BTW, I'm interested in how you became Romanian Orthodox. Where do you live?

The pride thing re. crosses is basically just a pastoral thing - if we are discouraged to display crosses it is to prevent us becoming puffed up about our Christianity, thinking it makes us better than others, no to prevent us taking pride in our faith. Like with most emotions, there are good and bad aspects to pride and it is the negative aspects we try to avoid by emphasising personal humility over religious pride. Hope that makes sense.

I live in Yorkshire, in north east England. To make a long story short, I first encountered Orthodoxy whilst doing missionary work in Romania (I was a Protestant engaging in aid work rather than evangelism) and became interested in it until eventually I converted. Obviously that meant that I entered Orthodoxy in Romania and feel more Romanian Orthodox than any other variety, though the ethnic side of things is obviously secondary. For a long time I (and my wife, who is Romanian - I met her whilst working out there) worshipped in a Greek Orthodox church because we had no other option where we lived, but last year a new Romanian parish opened in West Yorkshire (the only one outside London in this country) and so now I can take part in a parish that shares the customs and language I learnt while in Romania.

James

 

[Stick of Joseph]

I love this thread, I have found some very interesting beliefs. One thing that has not come up yet is the fact that Christ came not exactly to die for us, but more to pay the price for our sins. That made me think a little bit. Christ hurt more when he was paying for our sins then when he actually died. Where did Christ pay the price for our sin so that we could return back to him? The garden, the Garden of Gethsemane that is where he went through so much pain that he bled through every pore in his body. Why shouldnt the symbol of christianity be the place where he paid the price, an olive grove. If any thing the symbol should be an olive branch.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Well, this has certainly been an interesting read.

The viewpoint that early Chrisitans did not worship the cross and would even reject as a symbol of their faith appeals to me the most. I don't have references at hand to quote so I cannot provide proof at this point, but there is a very interesting statement by an early Christian who didn't like what was going on. He was an exile on Patmos and his name was John. He gives an unequivocal statement against the cross and the crucifix.
"And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. ."

Revelation (13:14)​

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Chapter 13 in Revelation indicates in its verses that the Cross would be considered to be the Mark of the Beast.​

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I'm sure that statement would raise some objections.​

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