Skwim
Veteran Member
God is expecting Satan to change? And in the mean time he goes about inflicting humans with sin, or whatever. Kind of heartless of god don't you think.
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Why Has God Let Satan Continue To Operate?
- Thread starter Skwim
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Job would never even consider calling his trials an evil he endured at the hands of the Devil because the Devil doesn't exist in Judaism, and to accuse Satan (the Hebrew name of this angel) of being evil is to accuse god of doing evil, because Satan is fiercely loyal and obedient to god and very much an agent of him.
In a sense, yes. God allows the demonic a certain degree of activity and influence upon the earth for the sanctification of human beings. For the most part the demonic is constrained to mere temptation. Temptation is a good thing in so far as it allows us to grow in virtue by resisting it.
He kinda is. Hell is like a dark room filled with people who all hate each other. And at the final judgment they'll be chained there forever.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
If god kills Satan then god is a liar because he prevented his own promises (of the battle of Armageddon and a New Earth where Christ will reign). Also, Satan serves a part in God's will, and has his uses and purposes.
Or it could be asked why would God kill Satan since the Christians made up that bit about the Rebellion.
Skwim
Veteran Member
And why does god want humans sanctified by Satan?
And you know this to be a fact because _____________________________________________________ .
No he's not. He's out there sanctifying people or something.
Again, you know this to be a fact because _____________________________________________________ .
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Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
King James Bible Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
We grow in sanctification by the practice of virtue. We grow in virtue by resisting vice. The temptations of the demonic sanctify us in so far as we resist them.
By the truths of the Catholic faith. You don't accept that faith but even so, nothing I have written here is esoteric.
Same as above. Although the analogy of the dark room specifically isn't Catholic doctrine.
Also...
Since you are neither all-powerful or all-loving, on what basis are you qualified to think this?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
And?
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/the-jewish-view-of-satan/
Would you consider accusing a god you love and worship, and who also has a tendency to kill those who displease him of doing evil to you? Especially if you see the tribulations as being sent by him? Especially if you view suffering as a good?
Suffering & Evil 101 | My Jewish Learning
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
I don't consider extreme suffering as a good. Also, omniscience, omnipotence, and great benevolence are contrarian to one another.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Lucifer is in his own 'kingdom', he is a fallen angel, with diminished power. Lucifer doesn't have power over those who do not worship, adhere to him.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
On what basis am I qualified to think this? Well, I got a Doctorate in Thinkology, I'll have you know.
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The bible actually says:
Revelation 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world ─ he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
And they all lived happily ever after, as in any good fairy story.
And as you say, this must be with God's blessing. Reminds me of Isaiah 45:
7 I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.
This idea of dumping the losers on Earth also reminds me of Scientology's Story of Xenu, said to be from the pen of L Ron Hubbard himself:
75 million years ago, there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy, including Earth, which in those days was called Teegeeack.
Xenu had a problem. All 76 planets of the Galactic Confederation he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of this overpopulation, and he had a plan.
With the help of renegades, Xenu defeated his opponents, the good people and their Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists and the media he persuaded billions of people to come in for income tax audits. They were instead injected in the lungs with alcohol and glycol to paralyze them. Then they were put into spaceships that looked exactly like DC9 airplanes, except they had rocket engines instead of propellers.
These space planes then flew to planet Earth where the hundreds of billions of paralyzed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes. H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes, and Xenu detonated all the H-bombs at once, killing everyone.
(Their souls adhered in 'clusters' which became 'parasitic demons'.)Xenu had a problem. All 76 planets of the Galactic Confederation he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of this overpopulation, and he had a plan.
With the help of renegades, Xenu defeated his opponents, the good people and their Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists and the media he persuaded billions of people to come in for income tax audits. They were instead injected in the lungs with alcohol and glycol to paralyze them. Then they were put into spaceships that looked exactly like DC9 airplanes, except they had rocket engines instead of propellers.
These space planes then flew to planet Earth where the hundreds of billions of paralyzed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes. H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes, and Xenu detonated all the H-bombs at once, killing everyone.
Is it not a sin to sit on your hands, when you can effortlessly prevent sin from happening?
'The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.' How can God be exempt?
Even robots know this stuff: First Law – A robot may not [...] through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
That seems grossly unfair. God had left Lucifer no option ─ no peaceful and democratic avenue to alter the political system of Heaven.
Callin' Isaiah a liar, eh? (See above.)
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All references to Satan, Devil etc is to our own lower selves.
God Loves us, he does not want to destroy us, but for us to find our true selves.
Regards Tony
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Are you Jewish?
Do your opinions regarding suffering have any bearing or weight regarding a Jewish approach towards suffering?
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
I know your only quoting what other people have said, but however this only goes to show that those people haven't a clue or idea about the book of Revelation.
Only what their pastors,preachers will tell them.
Not knowing the book of Revelation nor understanding what the book of Revelation is about,
So according to what Christ Jesus has given in the book of Revelation Satan and his angels are not cast out of heaven until the
6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th vial.
This being the mark of Satan = 666
That when the 6th seal is open and the 6th trumpet is sounded, then Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. But not until the 6th seal has been open and the 6th trumpet has been sounded first.
The book of Revelation is the only book in the Bible that is written for our time period.
For everything that is happening in the world to day, is all foretold in Revelation.
Let's for say God destroyed Satan right from the start.
How you view this, What if you in some way did something, would the thought come across your mind.
Seeing how God destroyed Satan, that God would destroy you also.
So God out love, given Satan time to turn himself around. But as it is, Satan went to far of never returning back
God did not want his creation walking around in fear, that they could be next to be destroyed.
So God let Satan continue his escapade, so that all God's creation can see who Satan really is, and see what sin can do.
So God being just and fair, let Satan continue his escapade.So that everyone can see and witness just how corrupted Satan's ways really are and what sin can do to a person.
So God wants his creation to come to him out of love for him and not out of fear.that they could be zapped out of existence.
So those who chooses God's way, will enter eternal life
And those who chooses Satan's way, will face total destruction.
As there's no middle ground.
One day coming people will have that chance to make that decision.
In what the Bible calls the valley of decision.
This being the last great war between God and Satan in the book of Revelation those that are with God and those that have chosen to be with Satan.
That fire came down from God out of heaven and destroyed them all. Revelation 20:8-15.
Take note, that there are 7 seals,
7 trumpets and 7vials in the book of Revelation.
The world is now standing in the 4th seal, 4th trumpet,4th vial.
That means, there are only 3 more seals and trumpets and vials to go before Christ Jesus returns. Christ Jesus returns at the sounding of the 7th trumpet.
The world is of right now standing at the door way of the great tribulation, When the 5th seal is open and the 5th trumpet is sounded which is soon to happen, things will start to happen that the world have never seen the likes of before.
Stay Tune
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wellwisher
Well-Known Member
One way to explain this is to consider a computer scientist who writes a program with the hope of developing artificial intelligence or AI. He uploads the program on a large university supercomputer, which is shared by many other researchers at the university.
One day, the AI appears, but as an anomaly, that makes its presence known by exerting its willpower within the computer, doing simple things. For example, it erases files or rearranges the data base. Because it is alive the creator marvels. However, because its first baby steps are destructive to the needs of all the others, who also use the computer, the AI is considered a problem.
The creator of the AI realizes the AI is problem, but he waits patently for it to outgrow its early leaning stage, with the hope that one day it will become an asset for all.
Jollybear
Hey
God does not expect satan to change, no. But thats not because its not possible for him to change. Its because his heart has grown so incredibly black, that one could define him as pure evil itself. However, he does demand that he change. Expect? Not so much.
However, apart from that, he still keeps him around inflicting humans because hes like a attorney. Hes arguing a case against humans. Just like in jobs case. Satan said "does job respect you for no reason? No, you put a wall of protection around him"
So God lets satan test him to find out what job will do. Thats whats going on. Satan temps us, he inflicts us, he does everything bad. God has to constrain him or else hed destroy us now.
I think its in the book of adam and eve, theres a tid bit of information that says after God made adam and eve, he had all the angels and satan included to come bow to them in respect. Satan refused out of envy. He thought the younger should bow to the older. And he thought he and the angelic race was enough for Gods love. The envy grew into hatrid.
Thats where it started. So, satan is betting that humans will fail the test and God will punish them along with him. God is betting that some humans will love him nomatter what.
74x12
Well-Known Member
He's allowed to stay for the purpose of testing people. This life is ultimately a test. When the end finally comes; then he is going to be cast in the lake of fire .
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
The answer to your questions lies in this understanding:
Who the Hell is Satan?
Here's my understanding of this "Old Enemy" as the literary scholar Neil Forsyth coined and what I consider to be the foundation of what is called Satanism.
Satan has always existed, only under other names and guises, Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche . . . a meme, or what some may now call a "Godform". This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is a social and cultural phenomenon as old as the mind of humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them" or "Me" and "the rest of you" . . . etc.
Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", which excluded all who were not Egyptian to be relegated to 'non-human', the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi" (barbarians). The Jewish Essenes called anyone not an Essene "ha satan" (the adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).
"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference"
- William Scott Green (Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion)
So, who/what is this Satan?
He simply is who you are not!
IAMTHATIAMNOT
Etu Malku V° HH☿D