Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[SoyLeche]

I skimmed it, I hadn't the will to actually read it all. I thought it's basic premis is all wrong. For starters, there was no way people of those times had ships capable of undertaking ocean voyages, that is archaeological fact. From that basic fact, it all falls down.

Melissa G

Yeah, since it is obvious that they were building ships like they'd all seen before

If that's the only thing you've got, it's pretty weak, seeing as the BoM itself says that this wasn't something that was common, or even really known at the time.

 

[Comprehend]

I skimmed it, I hadn't the will to actually read it all. I thought it's basic premis is all wrong. For starters, there was no way people of those times had ships capable of undertaking ocean voyages, that is archaeological fact. From that basic fact, it all falls down.

Melissa G

So you think that it was impossible to have ocean going ships 2000 years ago and that is what you base your entire opinion on? ok.

educate yourself:

Galley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Interesting article.

"Ancient Voyages Across the Ocean to America: From "Impossible" to "Certain"

Thought you might want to take a look at this since you stated that it couldn't happen.

For me, that's not a big mental leap - around that time, the Polynesians were sailing all over the South Pacific. If you can sail from New Zealand to Hawai'i, it's plausible that you could sail to the Americas as well.

One thing I'm not clear on is how every single culture in the Americas suddenly decided to give up on metal and metallurgy, despite the amazing advantages it gives a civilization. Did they dump their metal coins, weapons and tools in the ocean, then all simultaneously whack themselves on the head to make themselves forget how to mine and work metal?

 

[SoyLeche]

Care to tell us where Zarahemla is

Sorrenson believes that Zarahemla is likely a site known as "Santa Rosa" in southern Mexico. Unfortunately, the site is now beneath a reservoir.

He's got a section in his book about metals, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorrenson believes that Zarahemla is likely a site known as "Santa Rosa" in southern Mexico. Unfortunately, the site is now beneath a reservoir.

Under a reservoir? That's conveniently unfortunate.

I'll have to check the book out. The reviews piqued my interest

He's got a section in his book about metals, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

When you get there, please fill us in on why and how ancient Americans collected and disposed of every scrap of metal that their civilizations ever used.

 

[Katzpur]

Under a reservoir? That's conveniently unfortunate.

On the contrary, you seem to have found it rather conveniently fortunate. Which doesn't really prove anything one way or the other.

When you get there, please fill us in on why and how ancient Americans collected and disposed of every scrap of metal that their civilizations ever used.

Please give me chapter and verse for the "scrap metal" you're referring to and I'll see what I can dig up for you. You are incorrect, by the way, when you suggest that metal was unknown in America prior to the Spanish conquest. I'm just not quite sure what you're referring to, so if you could be a little more specific, it would be helpful.

 

[Katzpur]

I really don't want to get involved in this, but from everything I've read, Smith was a charlatan, and simply invented his whole story.

Perhaps, in the future, if you don't want to get involved, you might want to consider not getting involved. Since you already have, though, perhaps you would be so kind as to tell us what you've read that has convinced you that he was a charlatan. Also, be sure to mention where you read it, as your source is quite pertinent to the validity or lack thereof of your claim.

 

[Katzpur]

That may be a rather direct way of putting it, but that's probably a fair assessment of the feelings of most people who reject the Book of Mormon.

Interestingly, though, most people who reject the Book of Mormon have never read it.

Care to tell us...where we can find an example of Nephite metallurgy, or explain of why the native North and South Americans had no metal tools or knowledge of metalworking when the Europeans arrived?

That would be pretty difficult, since your statement is false. Obviously, your knowledge of the Americas prior to the Spanish invasion is not exactly current.

 

[Comprehend]

One thing I'm not clear on is how every single culture in the Americas suddenly decided to give up on metal and metallurgy, despite the amazing advantages it gives a civilization. Did they dump their metal coins, weapons and tools in the ocean, then all simultaneously whack themselves on the head to make themselves forget how to mine and work metal?

You have no idea what you are talking about (to put it politely), they did just fine with metal work. Archeology is just getting going in South America, give it 50 years.

Photo's I took myself from a very nice exhibit over in Atlanta this year, notice the period date begins at 1 AD:

 

[SoyLeche]

Under a reservoir? That's conveniently unfortunate.

I'll have to check the book out. The reviews piqued my interest

Actually, not convenient at all. It would be much better if they didn't drown an archeological site with a reservoir. There are plenty of other sites to look at though. Lots of work still to do there. Check out the book - it's a pretty good read. It was written in 1985 though, so not entirely up-to-date.

When you get there, please fill us in on why and how ancient Americans collected and disposed of every scrap of metal that their civilizations ever used.

If you are going to get the book anyway, just read it . The section is quite long.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon to be true? It testifys of Christ our Savior, as the Messiah, the Great Mediator. And it's a solid Book, it has substance.

You don't believe there is any way that Christ would have appeared to his "Sheep of another fold" (mentioned in the bible) in the americas after his ressurection. Or that Both God and Christ would appear to a modern day prophet.

Yet, they believe that God, or even the "Mother Mary" would speak to 6 old women in Bosnia?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why you think the way you do.

I'm not exactly Christian, but why accept something as true if it conflicts with your understanding of the world?

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm not exactly Christian, but why accept something as true if it conflicts with your understanding of the world?

Well, if it is true then you should accept it because your understanding of the world is off and needs to be updated

 

[Comprehend]

The thirty-six carbon 14 dates associated pre-Columbian gold objects from Colombia, mentioned in this article, mostly reinforce the known data or make the existing chronology more precise. The early dates obtained for the Sinú region in north-western Colombia, if confirmed, would make us reconsider the history of American metallurgy, currently thought to have originated in the Peruvian highlands around the fifteenth century BC, from where it spread gradually to the north, with dates of between the seventh and fifth centuries BC for Colombia and Ecuador, the first centuries after Christ for Panama and Costa Rica, and the seventh to thirteenth centuries AD for Mexico.

Wait.... could somebody tell me when Nephi and co landed in America? Oh yes, around 600 BC. that's right....


Please feel free to browse this scholarly study of metalurgy in South America and educate yourself before you embarrass yourself any further.

Biblioteca Luis Ángel Arango



Also from the Metropolitan Museum timeline of Art History:

• ca. 350 B.C. Metals are being worked on the coast of northern Ecuador. While gold comes from alluvial deposits, copper is probably traded from the highlands in exchange for sea products, primarily spondylus shell.

Northern Andes, 1000 B.C.–1 A.D. | Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art

 

[Comprehend]

and from the Scientific American magazine:

Lake Reveals Evidence of Pre-Incan Silver Industry: Scientific American

SCIENCE NEWS
September 26, 2003
Lake Reveals Evidence of Pre-Incan Silver Industry

By Chris Jozefowicz

"From the depths of a small Andean lake scientists have pulled up evidence of pre-Incan silver smelting that is nearly 1,000 years old. The discovery of metals associated with smelting in Bolivia's Laguna Lobato suggests that people practiced large-scale silver ore mining some 400 years before 15th-century Incans began their silver industry in the area. The findings, published today in the journal Science, clarify a record of New World technology that was partly destroyed by the extensive plundering and recycling associated with Spanish conquest. "

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Well, if it is true then you should accept it because your understanding of the world is off and needs to be updated

Guess what? I was born into the Mormon church, my dad was a HP.

 

[FFH]

Under a reservoir? That's conveniently unfortunate.

When you get there, please fill us in on why and how ancient Americans collected and disposed of every scrap of metal that their civilizations ever used.

Read this chapter in the Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 9

The major cities of the Book of Mormon were burned and/or buried when Christ was crucified. Great judgements fell upon those living in the Americas at the time of Christ's death on the cross.. Christ then appeared to the survivors. There were great devastations/desolations..

This short video seems to give some evidence of a mass burial. Just stumbled upon it a while back..

Mysterious World - Peru

A quote from this short clip...

"The first traces of settlement go back 2500 years ago".

The Book of Mormon starts it's timeline 2600 years ago, when Lehi and his family left Jerusalem and set sail for the "promised land," the new world...

There is plenty of evidence if you really want to know if the Book of Mormon is true or not, most don't, and are only preoccupied with discrediting it, so they can make themselves feel better for rejecting it...

If you reject the Book of Mormon you are rejecting the fullness of Christ's gospel. Christ is the author of the Book of Mormon and the Bible. They are two witnesses of Christ as the Messiah that has come into the world to save us from the world.

John 3: 17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[SoyLeche]

Guess what? I was born into the Mormon church, my dad was a HP.

That's great - and somewhat irrelevant. Your past experience does nothing to change whether or not the book is true.

Granted, my response was mostly facaetious (sp?) and didn't really help anyone anyway.

 

[SoyLeche]

Read this chapter in the Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 9

The major cities of the Book of Mormon were burned and/or buried when Christ was crucified. Great judgements fell upon those living in the Americas at the time of Christ's death on the cross.. Christ then appeared to the survivors. There were great devastations/desolations..

This short video seems to give some evidence of a mass burial. Just stumbled upon it a while back..

Mysterious World - Peru

A quote from this short clip...

"The first traces of settlement go back 2500 years ago".

The Book of Mormon starts it's timeline 2600 years ago, when Lehi and his family left Jerusalem and set sail for the "promised land," the new world...

There is plenty of evidence if you really want to know if the Book of Mormon is true or not, most don't, and are only preoccupied with discrediting it, so they can make themselves feel better for rejecting it...

If you reject the Book of Mormon you are rejecting the fullness of Christ's gospel. Christ is the author of the Book of Mormon and the Bible. They are two witnesses of Christ as the Messiah that has come into the world to save us from the world.

John 3: 17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The chances are pretty slim that anything in the BoM occured in Peru. The most likely spot for the BoM is in southern Mexico and Guatamala. There are too many inconsistencies within the book itself to support an "all of North and South America" view. These disappear if you look at it on a smaller scale though.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

That's great - and somewhat irrelevant. Your past experience does nothing to change whether or not the book is true.

Granted, my response was mostly facaetious (sp?) and didn't really help anyone anyway.

I've read the Bible, Book of Mormon, P of GP and D&C. That is more than most Mormons have done. The BoM, while interesting, does not afford much insight. I got more out of The Impersonal Life.

 

[Comprehend]

I've read the Bible, Book of Mormon, P of GP and D&C. That is more than most Mormons have done. The BoM, while interesting, does not afford much insight. I got more out of The Impersonal Life.

I don't think reading all of the standard works is more than most mormons have done. What do you base this belief on? I have read all of them multiple times.