Why do you accept Jesus as Messiah?

[savagewind]

According to Vines Dictionary


JESUS
iesous (ʼΙησοῦς, 2424) is a transliteration of the Heb. “Joshua,” meaning “Jehovah is salvation,” i.e., “is the Savior,” “a common name among the Jews, e.g., Ex. 17:9; Luke 3:29 (RV); Col. 4:11.

I believe with all my heart that Jehovah the originator is salvation. Would you personally make something on purpose to be bad? I wouldn't! To me, Jesus means, Jehovah is with us. And, it is my opinion that Jehovah is for good.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So many problems with that:

• Justice is getting what you deserve. Punishing someone else for my actions is not and cannot be justice.
  • This makes the punishments of people for Adam's sin unjust and arguably immoral
  • This makes the torture and (sort of) death of Jesus unjust and immoral.
• Forgiveness is not justice. Forgiveness is mercy.
• Sin requires the ability to know right from wrong. Neither Adam nor eve had any knowledge of good or evil when they allegedly transgressed. So any punishment was necessarily unjust in teh first place.

So you understand justice better than God does?
Yes justice in human terms would be you dying with no hope of anything else.
But because Jesus took your place you don't have to be punished.
And this does happen in our system. People are pardoned be the president ect.
Another way to put it is that our Ransom was paid by Jesus.
No, people are punished for their own sin, not Adams.
Of course mercy must be accepted. It's offered but not applied if you refuse.
Of course Adam and Eve knew enough... they were told what not to do.

 

[Triumph]

Jesus died, was put to death, so all having faith in him might live.

I disagree, Jesus never said his death saves you, not once because all his death did is stop the world from hearing more words from God that save, it stopped Jesus from continuing to give sermons to thousands that would convert. The murder of Jesus stopped Jesus from teaching new lessons, healing the sick and raising the dead back to life. With Jesus alive, false prophets and false teachers would not prosper because Jesus could deny them to their face in front of witnesses.
John 6:68
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." The words save and Jesus said if you love God then you will not kill Jesus.
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
The flesh = human sacrifice= profits no one and Jesus spoke the command, the words, to believe in water baptism for removal of sins.
Jesus never said my death removes sin because it does not.
Stephen, a disciple of Jesus knowing what Jesus taught said," Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us" Jesus wanted no death of Jews and never commanded his followers to kill anyone, but Jesus did want their religion destroyed because it was built upon lies that Moses called laws from God when they were not. Some were good man-made laws but some were not, like the law that claims Jews have the right to own slaves. God never gave any person the right to own a slave. That was one of the Mosaic laws the Hebrew/Jews upheld that Jesus wanted destroyed. But Paul suppressed the gospel of Jesus and desires people to believe the Mosaic laws are to be upheld. Jesus came to uphold the true laws of God not the laws of Moses that Jesus often refused to obey and Paul considered Jesus a sinner for it.

 

[ppp]

So you understand justice better than God does?

For all of the gods that have been depicted in all of the sacred texts that I have read? Yes.

Yes justice in human terms would be you dying with no hope of anything else.

No. It wouldn't. We literally did nothing wrong in the Eden story. All fault lay completely with God.

No, people are punished for their own sin, not Adams.

There is nothing that any human has ever done to warrant either eternal torture or annihilation. Ever.

Of course mercy must be accepted. It's offered but not applied if you refuse.

Twaddle. I forgive people their trespasses against me all the time. All mercy requires is me not imposing sanction. Why is your god less capable than I?

Of course Adam and Eve knew enough... they were told what not to do.

No. They didn't. Knowing enough would AT THE VERY MINIMUM require that they know what moral right and wrong even meant. They did not. That is what the whole Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil thing was about.

If you don't have moral comprehension, then you cannot possibly make a moral choice.
If you don't have moral comprehension, then you cannot possibly make a moral choice.

 

[Triumph]

For all of the gods that have been depicted in all of the sacred texts that I have read? Yes.

No. It wouldn't. We literally did nothing wrong in the Eden story. All fault lay completely with God.

There is nothing that any human has ever done to warrant either eternal torture or annihilation. Ever.

Twaddle. I forgive people their trespasses against me all the time. All mercy requires is me not imposing sanction. Why is your god less capable than I?

No. They didn't. Knowing enough would AT THE VERY MINIMUM require that they know what moral right and wrong even meant. They did not. That is what the whole Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil thing was about.

If you don't have moral comprehension, then you cannot possibly make a moral choice.
If you don't have moral comprehension, then you cannot possibly make a moral choice.

You said, "If you don't have moral comprehension, then you cannot possibly make a moral choice." That is exactly why all infants and young children are not sinful thus saved if they die because until one can comprehend the difference between right and wrong, no sinful choices are made. People are not born sinful, and they are not born responsible for the sins of their fathers unless they reach a mature age making the decision to agree with the sins of their fathers.
The Eden story is not the beginning of humans that had already been created and were having families for generations before Abraham invented the story that created the first Hebrew/Jew and his first father that Abraham named Adam. The forbidden by God fruit is a lie believed as truth and people eat that fruit if they believe Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth.
The Jewish narrative of creation is about a God Abraham invented called Lord God so Abraham can be the Lord saying his God selected him. That is not the Living God that Jesus worships that is described in Chapter 1 of Genesis, because the truth always comes before a lie about it.
"it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. "
THEN
4These ARE the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," God is telling us everything had already been made and existing "in the day" the Jewish narrative of creation and the God they worship is presented.

 

[ppp]

You said, "If you don't have moral comprehension, then you cannot possibly make a moral choice." That is exactly why all infants and young children are not sinful thus saved if they die because until one can comprehend the difference between right and wrong, no sinful choices are made. People are not born sinful, and they are not born responsible for the sins of their fathers unless they reach a mature age making the decision to agree with the sins of their fathers.
The Eden story is not the beginning of humans that had already been created and were having families for generations before Abraham invented the story that created the first Hebrew/Jew and his first father that Abraham named Adam. The forbidden by God fruit is a lie believed as truth and people eat that fruit if they believe Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth.

That is certainly a take on the story that better comports with our current understand of morality. I expect interpretations will continue to evolve over the centuries to come as we refine our understanding further.

 

[Triumph]

That is certainly a take on the story that better comports with our current understand of morality. I expect interpretations will continue to evolve over the centuries to come as we refine our understanding further.

There will be no centuries to come because nuclear WW3 comes that causes nuclear winter that causes our end of days, extinction as a specie. The Bible is written to lead people away from that great extinction event.
We are given an interesting clue to this fact. There is no 666 in the Bible except a page number. What we are given in scripture is Six Hundred Threescore And Six. What is countable in a name is letters. The number of letters in Six Hundred Threescore And Six = 26
The man-made Beast has the same number of letters.
Count the number of letters in
Thermonuclear World War Three

 

[Triumph]

There will be no centuries to come because nuclear WW3 comes that causes nuclear winter that causes our end of days, extinction as a specie. The Bible is written to lead people away from that great extinction event.
We are given an interesting clue to this fact. There is no 666 in the Bible except a page number. What we are given in scripture is Six Hundred Threescore And Six. What is countable in a name is letters. The number of letters in Six Hundred Threescore And Six = 26
The man-made Beast has the same number of letters.
Count the number of letters in
Thermonuclear World War Three

Another amazing clue associated with this is in Physics, string theory is comprised of 26 dimensions beyond that is nothing.

 

[ppp]

There will be no centuries to come because nuclear WW3 comes that causes nuclear winter that causes our end of days, extinction as a specie. The Bible is written to lead people away from that great extinction event

Is certainly possibility that we will have a nuclear war. It is also possibility that we will succumb to global warming. It is also possibility that neither of those things will happen and we will continue for millennia to come.
The Bible was written to record the mythologies of bronze age desert dwellers, to encode their laws and and to justify their god beliefs. That's all.

We are given an interesting clue to this fact. There is no 666 in the Bible except a page number. What we are given in scripture is Six Hundred Threescore And Six. What is countable in a name is letters. The number of letters in Six Hundred Threescore And Six = 26
The man-made Beast has the same number of letters.
Count the number of letters in
Thermonuclear World War

This is just number play. Numerology. Bible code. Math play. Reading entrails. Can I count the number of letters in any language? Can I switch to French? Or mandarin?

The Bible is just a book.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Is your post supposed to be a response to mine? It looks to me like you are just making a random disconnected statement. That perhaps I exceeded the scope of your prescribed talking point, so you just went on to some another bullet point on some list. But perhaps I am missing something subtle?

The Baha’i model is not only newer it is unique. An entirely new system of governance.

The difference in the Baha’i teachings is that Baha’u’llah introduces concepts on a new system of world governance based upon concepts such collective security and consultation. Step by step guides are given as to how to consult successfully and so on.

 

[Truthseeker]

I think the intolerant, vociferous and uncompromising form of Christianity is pretty much an exclusively American phenomenon. The rest of the Christian world, such as it is, has moved on.

Hard to really say that. Christianity is in so many places now. It is in Latin America and Africa and other places, not just Europe and the US, Europe, and former British colonies. I don't have enough information on that. Africa will rise in the future to have a big share of Christians. It is growing there, and declining in the US and Europe.

 

[ppp]

The Baha’i model is not only newer it is unique. An entirely new system of governance.

You said that before. No one who has spoken of it in my sight has outlined any of these new parts.

 

[Triumph]

Is certainly possibility that we will have a nuclear war. It is also possibility that we will succumb to global warming. It is also possibility that neither of those things will happen and we will continue for millennia to come.
The Bible was written to record the mythologies of bronze age desert dwellers, to encode their laws and and to justify their god beliefs. That's all.



This is just number play. Numerology. Bible code. Math play. Reading entrails. Can I count the number of letters in any language? Can I switch to French? Or mandarin?

The Bible is just a book.

The Bible is prophecy of the future and it tells us that. It also states that it is written in parables. It is not meant to be used as a history book other than the fact it was written in the past to warn about what is going to happen in the future.
The prophetic scripture said count the name. The only thing countable in a name is letters. I also have thought of the language differences aspect but note that the first to use atomic warfare were English speaking people so their language is the one that reveals the name of the Beast, thermonuclear world war three.
Russia is the Bear in scripture and Ukraine is one of the 3 ribs in its mouth the bear wants to devour to increase its strength.

 

[ppp]

The Bible is prophecy of the future and it tells us that.

It tells us that. I have no reason to believe it.

 

[syo]

That's a good mix of beliefs.

Thank you!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Twaddle. I forgive people their trespasses against me all the time. All mercy requires is me not imposing sanction. Why is your god less capable than I?

Lol, says the tiny brain of someone who believes he is just an ape trying to understand an infinite being.
It's not a matter of being capable it's a matter of him having a perfect sense of mercy and grace.

God doesn't have to do anything, including give mercy to people who do wrong daily. Yet he does.

 

[ppp]

Lol, says the tiny brain of someone who believes he is just an ape trying to understand an infinite being.
It's not a matter of being capable it's a matter of him having a perfect sense of mercy and grace.

God doesn't have to do anything, including give mercy to people who do wrong daily. Yet he does.

You forget. I understand justice better than God does. Or better than God would if he existed. In reality, I understand justice better than the humans who wrote the words that you falsely attribute to your God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You forget. I understand justice better than God does. Or better than God would if he existed. In reality, I understand justice better than the humans who wrote the words that you falsely attribute to your God.

Humble too, I see.
You understand less than nothing it appears.

 

[ppp]

Humble too, I see.

Yes I am far more humble than those who claim that the details of their lives are a focus of an all powerful creator of universes.

You understand less than nothing it appears.

Ah. I see. Not agreeing with you is the equivalent to understanding less than nothing. Yes. Yes! I can see the deep, unassuming modesty of your simple, humble words.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes I am far more humble than those who claim that the details of their lives are a focus of an all powerful creator of universes

That's another arrogant statement. Bragging about being humble isn't humility, just a FYI.