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why did jesus call judas the betrayer?
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
the-jesusist
Emmanuel
The gospel of Judas says otherwise.
Neophyte
Miranda Kerr Worship
Since Jesus knew the future and everything is predestined, it does not seem right to criticize Judas. Not just that, the Bible said the devil entered into him. How was that his fault?
Joh 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Joh 13:28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
Joh 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Joh 13:28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
IsmailaGodHasHeard
Well-Known Member
Jesus called Judas the betrayer because Judas betrayed Him. What Judas did was so wrong.
Oneatatime
Huh?
Maybe Jesus didn't know that after he was killed a ressurection and sin mythology would sprout up. He was probably miffed that some tosser had grassed on him and got him an execution.
Spirited
Bring about world peace
Because the original mission of Christ was not to die.
no-body
Well-Known Member
Arguably Jesus committed a complicated form of suicide. It is clear from his strange behavior during the last supper that he knew Judas was the betrayer and that he was going to get arrested that night.
I have to give Jesus props for using the events of his death to teach non-violence and meekness, rather than running away or fighting, but no one cares about that.
I have to give Jesus props for using the events of his death to teach non-violence and meekness, rather than running away or fighting, but no one cares about that.
He always ran away from authorities instead of smiting them. IDK whats wrong with him.
waitasec
Veteran Member
explain how he betrayed jesus?
waitasec
Veteran Member
what was the original mission?
Spirited
Bring about world peace
What Judas did was betray Christ, leading to his death. God did not send his only begotten son to die. Jesus was able to turn his death into a victory, but that does not mean that it was his purpose for coming to Earth.
The mission was to restore God's lineage and set humankind back on the right track. God would be concerned with that because it was his original purpose for creating humanity.
Your dislike for my politics pervades all of your responses to me. I'm just debating, you need to not take things so personally if you want to have a discussion.
Do you actually believe in the Bible or are you just trolling Christians?
waitasec
Veteran Member
john 3:16 refutes that...are you going to argue with jesus himself?
or what about
Hebrews 2:17 17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[a] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
you do believe the bible right?
then why not send christ at that point in time instead of a flood?
it's politics as usual
if your politics are influenced by bigotry i am here to debate that...what's the problem
i don't beleive the bible is the word of god, to think such a thing would be to trivialize a deity. are you implying asking questions is trolling?
besides this is a thread that i started...
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Spirited
Bring about world peace
I see nothing in either of these quotes that suggests Christ needed to die to atone for the sins of man or offer eternal life.
Actually that WAS the purpose of the flood, to kill all those who were not the followers of God - Though Noah offered to take people with him, nobody but his own family members believe him - so that the lineage could be restored to God. If Noah's son had not perpetuated the original sin by being ashamed of, and covering, his fathers nakedness, the foundation for Christ would have been laid for the next generation of Noah's family.
My politics are influenced by my understanding of God, the Bible, the Divine Principle, the teachings of Rev. Moon, my conservative values, my parents, and my love of the human race (I'm sure you will argue that as fast as you can).
The Bible is the history of the word of God as written by imperfect man. I'm implying that there is such a thing as a loaded question (one that presupposes a negative answer desired by the questioner). Instead of asking "did you punch him in the face", asking, "why did you punch him in the face".
And on the point of bigotry, I never asked that gay people be denied any rights that I myself possess. They can get married to someone of the opposite sex, adopt children with someone of the opposite sex and otherwise do everything that I can do. To presume that something deviant of the norm should be accepted as the norm and defended as the norm (like comparing it to African American rights/ Civil Rights) and that all who oppose this view are ignorant bigots is an abomination of the essence of truth. Truth can win arguments without lies, deceit, faulty comparison and faulty reasoning. Truth would never call one side of an argument ignorant, because it does not need to do so to win an argument or gain a following.
waitasec
Veteran Member
romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
then you don't understand gods word when it clearly says to shake the dust off of your feet.
and why are you so excited about throwing stones at people (figuratively)
oh no you didn't just say that...
why subject them to an unhappy marriage just so that you can feel more comfortable?
get over yourself. your beliefs are YOUR beliefs.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2010/06/07/children-lesbian-couples-school-life/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100831091240.htm
have you ever considered why homosexuals stayed in the closet?
nice mob mentality you got there captain...
just to remind you...it's liberty and justice for ALL not for the majority...
now that's the truth....sorry.
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IsmailaGodHasHeard
Well-Known Member
Judas sold Jesus out for thirty pieces of silver. That is a betrayal.
Spirited
Bring about world peace
If you read the rest of this, it actually supports my claim, but you read only the part that "sounds good" for your argument.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
This is referring, as the my doctrine does, to the spiritual salvation offered by Christ. Also, keep in mind that Romans was written about Christs death, not about his life. Christ died for our sins certainly, but that was not his original mission for coming. It was the result of the betrayal of Judas and others who failed him.
Noah was the central figure of his time and would have been able to establish the foundation for Christ to come had it not been for the transgression of Ham. Because of the shame of Ham, the lineage of Noah was split, between Hams children and the children of Ham's brothers.
Genesis 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren 26 And he said, Blessed be the lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
You don't understand the meaning of either of these two phrases.
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matt 10:6
Let's skip to 13 now for the sake of time.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgement than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Skip to 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
It's clearly referring to people witnessing in the name of the Lord. "Shake the dust off of your feet", is referring to wasting your time with people who arn't going to be swayed but what you are saying. And, while that might be true of my conversations with you on this forum, others who read it may actually be able to gain something from it.
How about the stone throwing comment you keep bringing up, how about you learn what it means?
. . . He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. John 8:7
Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:11 He did not say, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and keep sinning." He calls her action a sin. Calling someone out is very different from condemning or physically harming someone. How can he tell his disciples, in almost EVERY chapter of every single book in the New Testament, to teach of his words and spread the gospel if they arn't even allowed to call an act sinful?
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
Remember too that in the Bible "judgement" didn't hold the same meaning we give it in our culture today. To "judge" meant quite literally to take action against or try to remedy through punishment. Think of the difference between "prejudice" and "discrimination"; prejudice quite literally means "before judgment", basically that you decide how you to treat someone before you know sufficiently about them. Discrimination is acting out upon your feelings of prejudice. He never told anyone to not recognize sin.
44 You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? All from John 8
He is basically saying that because humanity is fallen, they cannot understand right from wrong without his aid and the aid of God. That even those who hear his words will condemn him as a liar because they are so incapable of understanding heavenly morality.
". . .according to Gartrell, who is in a same-sex partnership.", and yet you still accuse my sources of being biased -.-'
As to the second link, that is not at all the concern I'm talking about. I wouldn't expect there to be any difference in the academic achievement of children adopted by same-sex couples, I refer to their ability to relate to both sexes in a healthy way. I want to see marriage statistics for the children raised by same-sex couples, not grades. I would also like to see if children raised by same-sex couples are more likely to be promiscuous or contract sexually transmitted diseases due to less responsible partnership. Analyzing teens does not address my concerns.
I'm am neither a mob nor a captain; just a young man who will not be beaten down or deterred.
waitasec
Veteran Member
did judas lie?
judas provided the opportunity for your atonement.
if judas didn't point him out, how would atonement be accomplished?
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If everyone weren't sinful animals there would be no need for atonement. Lots of people wanted to kill Jesus or turn him in which would be sinful I think. So the atonement would have been needed no matter if he had been turned in or lived to a rightful old age. If anything the crucifixion allowed god to forgive a major atrocity, not that we deserved forgiveness in the first place.