Why believe someone who knows what God wants?

[Jaymes]

Why should we believe someone when they say they know what God wants or thinks?

Should people who say they know what God wants or thinks be held to certain standards if we are to believe them? Or is telling us what God wants/thinks completely unrelated to how they themselves behave?

EDIT: Ack... I forgot a word in my title. Could a mod edit it to read "Why believe someone who knows what God wants?"

 

[Gentoo]

I've always wondered why some people insist on putting words in God's mouth by saying something like "God hates _______".

I don't get it.

 

[yuvgotmel]

Well Jaymes, they may not be 100% incorrect in stating that they know what "god wants" because....
When god is created in their image, what do you expect?
​

 

[robtex]

Well Jaymes, they may not be 100% incorrect in stating that they know what "god wants" because....
When god is created in their image, what do you expect?
​

One that everyone or nobody can know their intentions instead of a select few, which by and large seem to become really wealthy many times out of the situation presented.

 

[yuvgotmel]

One that everyone or nobody can know their intentions instead of a select few, which by and large seem to become really wealthy many times out of the situation presented.

Can you rephrase that?

 

[gingernater]

Well Jaymes, they may not be 100% incorrect in stating that they know what "god wants" because....​

When god is created in their image, what do you expect?​

When god is created in their image?, were created in his image.

i think that if you are to bielive someone when they say they have a word from god, then you should be able to judge them by how their living, to help to see if its true.

 

[Todd]

Why should we believe someone when they say they know what God wants or thinks?

I'm not sure what religion/God your asking about, but biblically, there are many false teachers. What I usually do is see if what they are saying lines up with the bible. Even still, what God wants that person to do, doesn't mean that's what he want me to do. He has a different plan for everyone.

Should people who say they know what God wants or thinks be held to certain standards if we are to believe them? Or is telling us what God wants/thinks completely unrelated to how they themselves behave?

I believe the one who is preaching should hold himself to a high standard. Teachers should be held to a high standard, but as seen below, many teachers do not do what they preach which discredits them many times.

Matthew 23:1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

 

[joeboonda]

I don't know alot, but I do know there is a God and I'm not Him, so I do not know what He thinks. I would not listen to someone who tries to tell you what God thinks, if you want to know more about God, read the Bible.

 

[robtex]

Can you rephrase that?

yea sure,

P1= God is omnipresent or very present
P2= God is does not conceal his intentions or have hidden agendas but shares his views
p3= a large percentage of the population called z1 can, under normal circumstances understand those whose methods are overt and who are available to the public. where z1 = 51 % of the population that available or more and x1-y1= z1 where x1 = whole population and y1 = population that under normal circumstances cannot understand those whose methods are overt and available to the public.

c1 = If there p1, p2, and p3 are true valid and reasonable than a large percentage of he population which is z1 should know God's intentions.

 

[Jaymes]

I don't know alot, but I do know there is a God and I'm not Him, so I do not know what He thinks. I would not listen to someone who tries to tell you what God thinks, if you want to know more about God, read the Bible.

What makes you think the people who wrote the Bible knew anything about what God thought or wanted? Why are they the exception to your belief that you're not going to listen to someone who tries to tell you what God thinks?

 

[robtex]

I'm not sure what religion/God your asking about, but biblically, there are many false teachers. What I usually do is see if what they are saying lines up with the bible. Even still, what God wants that person to do, doesn't mean that's what he want me to do. He has a different plan for everyone.

Todd, I would ask in response to this which version of the dozen of versions available? Beyond that how do you apply a 6 year old text to modern conceptions like abortion, space travel and other ideas that didn't exist 6ooo years ago?

I believe the one who is preaching should hold himself to a high standard. Teachers should be held to a high standard, but as seen below, many teachers do not do what they preach which discredits them many times.

Who sets these standards and back to the op why don't we all know what these standards are?

Matthew 23:1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

the sources after this put the book of Matthew written between 60-85 AD. JC is reputed to have died in 30 AD so actually is the author, believed to be Matthew's opinion on what Jesus may have said if he had been around him or very likely was not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/when-was-the-book-of-matthew-written-faq.htm
http://www.wacklepedia.com/g/go/gospel_of_matthew_1.html

Relating this post back to the OP isn't it odd that Jesus came to make a book that would be seen by his followers at the greatest in history but forgot to write any of it himself? Does that seem like overt and open to you?

 

[yuvgotmel]

yea sure,

P1= God is omnipresent or very present
P2= God is does not conceal his intentions or have hidden agendas but shares his views
p3= a large percentage of the population called z1 can, under normal circumstances understand those whose methods are overt and who are available to the public. where z1 = 51 % of the population that available or more and x1-y1= z1 where x1 = whole population and y1 = population that under normal circumstances cannot understand those whose methods are overt and available to the public.

c1 = If there p1, p2, and p3 are true valid and reasonable than a large percentage of he population which is z1 should know God's intentions.

Plugging in some numbers here...

x1 = whole population, which is divided into y1 & z1 = [(z1 = population that believes the premises of P1, P2, & P3) + (y1 = about 16% from stats in 2005)]

y1 is further divided into s1 & s2 (s2 = population who have previously been in category z1)

Therefore, the question: does s2 know more than s1 and/or z1 ?

 

[robtex]

I don't know what numbers one could plug into the equation. The marco idea though is using algebra, conceptually speaking, to outline a paradigm, and secondly premising that a God that creates man as his favorite pet, it would reasonable to assume he would make the majority able to communicate with him hence the < greater than 50 % .

In regards to this:

Plugging in some numbers here...

x1 = whole population, which is divided into y1 & z1 = [(z1 = population that believes the premises of P1, P2, & P3) + (y1 = about 16% from stats in 2005)]

y1 is further divided into s1 & s2 (s2 = population who have previously been in category z1)

Therefore, the question: does s2 know more than s1 and/or z1 ?

It would be irrelevant what percentage of the population believe in God if God made them as "his children" which is what most religions profess , and has a "personal relationship" with his children it is odd how so few people "talk to God" . The 16 % figure isn't even close. Most people in the world believe there is a God and that God made man to have a personal relationship with him making p1-p3 valid within those faiths. The exceptions among the believers being some pagans, deists, UU's some reform Jews and a very small miscellaneous section.

S1 is invalid because it implies that God made a population x1 in which most reject him as opposed to worship and praise him which I am sure even from casual observation you can see as incorrect.

 

[yuvgotmel]

The 16 % figure isn't even close. Most people in the world believe there is a God and that God made man to have a personal relationship with him making p1-p3 valid within those faiths. The exceptions among the believers being some pagans, deists, UU's some reform Jews and a very small miscellaneous section.

S1 is invalid because it implies that God made a population x1 in which most reject him as opposed to worship and praise him which I am sure even from casual observation you can see as incorrect.

y1 = 16% according to the stats from 2005.... y1 was what you defined as the population under normal circumstance did not believe that they could hear from God (so to speak) as you outlined in P1, P2, & P3. (y1 = atheists, non-theists, etc.}

 

[robtex]

y1 = 16% according to the stats from 2005.... y1 was what you defined as the population under normal circumstance did not believe that they could hear from God (so to speak) as you outlined in P1, P2, & P3. (y1 = atheists, non-theists, etc.}

but the inherent contradiction is that the majority of people live in accordance to
Gods will yet can't communicate with him which would make knowing his will as impossible. Also can you list the link to your stats?

the idea of personal relationship without being able to communicate is an oxymoron by design. If as the op suggests, and which I think you are concurring to, that only a small percent of people actually can talk to God than the people worship those who communicate to God not God himself. That would include the likes of Moses, Paul, Jimmy Stewart and any other mega church leader who clearly feel they are speaking to God.

In relating this to the OP

Why should we believe someone when they say they know what God wants or thinks?

Should people who say they know what God wants or thinks be held to certain standards if we are to believe them? Or is telling us what God wants/thinks completely unrelated to how they themselves behave?

I submit to you that if God created the universe and made himself in the image of man as you suggested, as well as having a personal relationship it is bizarre to think only 16 % of the population can communicate and that those who are feverant about communicating with him can't even be in the same ball park on what they are saying.

If you stat is correct than only 16% of the pop has a personal relationship with God, as communication is a necessity for all personal relationships which would imply a more deistic than theistic god. Even the most liberal of definitions of what constitutes a personal relationship requires some method of two way communication.

 

[Todd]

Todd, I would ask in response to this which version of the dozen of versions available? Beyond that how do you apply a 6 year old text to modern conceptions like abortion, space travel and other ideas that didn't exist 6ooo years ago?

King James, NIV, etc. It doesn't totally matter to me. Even though the wording/language is different, the general subject is the same. Yes, there might be some wording that can be interpreted one way or another, but the message of Jesus dieing for our sins is the same as far as the scriptures that I have read.

As far as how a 6000 (although a lot of it is around 2000 years old) year old text applies to modern conceptions, I'm not totally sure. It's probably more personal conviction for me. Example: Religion aside, I don't think abortion is right. Religiously, I'm not totally sure. It does mention some things that could help you argue against abortion, but it's not totally concrete since they didn't have such a thing back then.

Who sets these standards and back to the op why don't we all know what these standards are?

Depends on the religion. In my beliefs, it's the Bible, and the Holy Spirt's work in my life. Obviously, a Jewish Rabbi might have a different standard by using the Torah and so on. The only way you'd know and understand the standards is by reading the book.

the sources after this put the book of Matthew written between 60-85 AD. JC is reputed to have died in 30 AD so actually is the author, believed to be Matthew's opinion on what Jesus may have said if he had been around him or very likely was not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/when-was-the-book-of-matthew-written-faq.htm
http://www.wacklepedia.com/g/go/gospel_of_matthew_1.html

Relating this post back to the OP isn't it odd that Jesus came to make a book that would be seen by his followers at the greatest in history but forgot to write any of it himself? Does that seem like overt and open to you?

No, I don't think it was odd that Jesus didn't write a book physically. His ministry lasted only around 3 years (time between when he was baptised by John and when he was crucified). I think he had plenty of issues on his hands during these three years. He was pretty busy healing people, walking the desert for 40 days, raising people from the dead, etc. The reason he had the 12 apostles was for them to ultimately spread the word. The first 4 books of the new testament lined up pretty closely, even though they had different authors, and it was definitely possible that some of the disciples were still alive 30 to 50 years later.

 

[yuvgotmel]

but the inherent contradiction is that the majority of people live in accordance to
Gods will yet can't communicate with him which would make knowing his will as impossible. Also can you list the link to your stats?

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

the idea of personal relationship without being able to communicate is an oxymoron by design. If as the op suggests, and which I think you are concurring to, that only a small percent of people actually can talk to God than the people worship those who communicate to God not God himself. That would include the likes of Moses, Paul, Jimmy Stewart and any other mega church leader who clearly feel they are speaking to God.

There are a lot more than just the famous ones&#8230; but ok.

In relating this to the OP


I submit to you that if God created the universe and made himself in the image of man as you suggested, as well as having a personal relationship it is bizarre to think only 16 &#37; of the population can communicate and that those who are feverant about communicating with him can't even be in the same ball park on what they are saying.

No ...That is not what I said&#8230;

I said that man creates god in his own image&#8212;not the other way around. I lay this entire argument out pretty well on a one-on-one debate with roli too.

It was someone else (on this thread) that posted god created man in his image.

However, this is what I adhere to:

&#8220;That is the way it is in the world--men make gods and worship their creation.
It would be fitting for the gods to worship men!&#8221;​

&#8220;The Gospel of Philip&#8221; from &#8220;The Nag Hammadi Library in English&#8221;​

If you stat is correct than only 16% of the pop has a personal relationship with God, as communication is a necessity for all personal relationships which would imply a more deistic than theistic god. Even the most liberal of definitions of what constitutes a personal relationship requires some method of two way communication.

No &#8230; The 16% came from the figure of the y1 category. The z1 category, as I understood it from your first equation, included people that believes in the premises of P1, P2, & P3.

p3= a large percentage of the population called z1 can, under normal circumstances understand those whose methods are overt and who are available to the public. where z1 = 51 % of the population that available or more and x1-y1= z1 where x1 = whole population and y1 = population that under normal circumstances cannot understand those whose methods are overt and available to the public.

The y1 category is&#8212;in my understanding of your figures&#8212;the population who do not believe that god can speak to people; whereas z1 includes the Billy Graham types.

 

[love]

What is your favorite fruit?

 

[Jaymes]

What is your favorite fruit?

Er... what's this have to do with the topic? :sarcastic

 

[nutshell]

Why should we believe someone when they say they know what God wants or thinks?

Should people who say they know what God wants or thinks be held to certain standards if we are to believe them? Or is telling us what God wants/thinks completely unrelated to how they themselves behave?

We should believe someone when they say they know what God wants or thinks when we have confirmation from God that this person is speaking Truth. Hence, we believe someone when they say they know what God wants because God tells us He wants us to listen to them.