Why ‘us vs them’?

[TransmutingSoul]

Hey stranger, where are you? If anyone is going to have a perspective that tries to bring opposing sides together it's going to be you. We've got an "Us vs. Them" thing going on right here. How should a Baha'i respond?

I know... Let's take a survey...

Add fuel to the fire?

Try to build bridges of understanding between the opposing sides?

Ignore them and hope they go away?

Support your side, because you are right, and you shouldn't give in to blind, ignorant people?

Abdu'l-Baha just went on serving people in His community. The people that Vs Abdu'l-Baha, he would serve them as he would the best of friends.

Regards Tony

 

[McBell]

This was always going to be a us vs them, that is the current nature of the collective mind of humanity.

Stay happy, stay well, the day will come when there is no us vs them.

Love and peace, regards Tony

Rather difficult to take you seriously when you are not even able to see the "us v them" in your own organization.
Or worse, you see it and are simply in denial.

 

[Secret Chief]

This was always going to be a us vs them, that is the current nature of the collective mind of humanity.

That's rich coming from an exponent of something which patronises and misrepresents people of other faiths.

 

[CG Didymus]

Maybe the best thing for me to do is just blend in. And be a part of the family. Treat all as equals and be respectful of all.

That sounds pretty good. Maybe it wasn't the intention of some of the Baha'is, but just by stating some of the Baha'i beliefs, they have alienated some people here. Now that it's already been done, how do Baha'is fix that?

That's why I think your input is needed. I think Adrian's thoughts would be good also.

But how do you treat people as equals and with respect if you think that their religious beliefs are wrong? I think that is the problem that is facing Baha'is.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Rather difficult to take you seriously when you are not even able to see the "us v them" in your own organization.
Or worse, you see it and are simply in denial.

Godlessness creates us vs them. It's built into this matrix.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The Light is us, the darkness is them, and each if us has tge capacity of light Us, or the capacity of darkness, them.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Rather difficult to take you seriously when you are not even able to see the "us v them" in your own organization.
Or worse, you see it and are simply in denial.

Or recognize that there actually are people who only see 'us'.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That sound pretty good. Maybe it wasn't the intention of some of the Baha'is, but just by stating some of the Baha'i beliefs, they have alienated some people here. Now that it's already been done, how do Baha'is fix that?

That's why I think your input is needed. I think Adrian's thoughts would be good also.

But how do you treat people as equals and with respect if you think that their religious beliefs are wrong? I think that is the problem that is facing Baha'is.

Godlessness creates us vs them. It's built into this matrix.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The Light is us, the darkness is them, and each if us has tge capacity of light Us, or the capacity of darkness, them.

Regards Tony

That is why us vs them will most likely always be part of this matrix.

The key is, us vs them only dissipates in the Spirit that is of God.

Regards Tony

 

[McBell]

Godlessness creates us vs them. It's built into this matrix.

So you think that you can undo what God Himself has done?

 

[CG Didymus]

That's rich coming from an exponent of something which patronises and misrepresents people of other faiths.

That's an important point. If you and I have different beliefs but don't try and push our beliefs onto each other, but instead listen and respect each other, and maybe even learn from each other, then we've got something.

But some religions teach their followers that what they have is better, truer, and/or has replaced the beliefs of others. Christianity did that to the Jews. Baha'is do it to all the people in all the other religions. And they will tell them why their old religious beliefs are no longer true.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is why us vs them will most likely always be part of this matrix.

The key is, us vs them only dissipates in the Spirit that is of God.

Regards Tony

That is still making your beliefs, the Baha'i Faith, the only true religion of God for today. No matter what other religion a person is following, it is outdated and has been abrogated by your beliefs.

I know you believe it is absolutely right. But, unless it is the absolute truth, then all it's doing is making "thems" of everybody else that aren't Baha'is.

Is that really how Baha'is want to present their religion to the world?

 

[Spice]

The key is, us vs them only dissipates in the Spirit that is of God.

Shouldn't believers, regardless of their messenger, manifest God's Spirit/will to the best of their human ability? Are we not the physical attribute of God in this material world? Are we not His hands?

If so, then the key is ALL of "us" loving and accepting ALL of "them" with charity, as they are, so that God may gain their attention. Only God can transform.

Be fishers of men. Just catch 'em.
HE'll clean 'em.

Namaste

 

[Spice]

Baha'is do it to all the people in all the other religions.

And that was not how Baha'i was presented to me a dozen years ago. I was told, and shown "writings", that Babbulah believed it was time for the next step, but never by dismissing what came before. . . never expecting those who felt their place of opportunity to do God's work in older traditions to abandon that calling, but to reach out and give a hand up of understanding to the next generation of God's voice.

The Baha'i I communicated with had excellent knowledge of the Jewish scriptures/traditions, the Christian, and the Islamic and could tie them together very proficiently. He was great at moderating disagreements among these faiths. This Baha'i was also always interested in learning about other spritural beliefs and was never derogatory even if in disagreement.

Was this Baha'i I spoke with unique, or has this "faith" hardened so much in such a short time? I'm quite saddened at the possibility, because though I was not interested in delving deeper into Baha'i, what I saw them as I would have stood up for in solidarity of peaceful, positive carriers/doers of God's will. I thought them a bridge!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My own opinion on us vs them is ungodliness. God is unity and oneness, driving the desire to be one with humanity.

Us will be part of the Oneness, them are the various degrees of disunity, that break that bond, them can be people of faith or no faith.

In the end it is our actions that will define us vs them.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Shouldn't believers, regardless of their messenger, manifest God's Spirit/will to the best of their human ability? Are we not the physical attribute of God in this material world? Are we not His hands?

If so, then the key is ALL of "us" loving and accepting ALL of "them" with charity, as they are, so that God may gain their attention. Only God can transform.

Be fishers of men. Just catch 'em.
HE'll clean 'em.

Namaste

Yes indeed, we are all loved by God, we are all immersed in God's bounty, mercy amd forgiveness.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is still making your beliefs, the Baha'i Faith, the only true religion of God for today. No matter what other religion a person is following, it is outdated and has been abrogated by your beliefs.

I know you believe it is absolutely right. But, unless it is the absolute truth, then all it's doing is making "thems" of everybody else that aren't Baha'is.

Is that really how Baha'is want to present their religion to the world?

The key is, I do not make the religions CG. It is God that gives and God that abrogates past dispensations of the same Holy Spirit.

That argument is with God, I can only share scriptures from all faiths.

Regards Tony

 

[idea]

I chose "Follow blindly without question," but it's not the first answer I would choose. There was no choice for "Become assimilated into the Borg hive mind"

Only 2? chose this option. Looks to be a small hive mind. Not sure what is being followed?

Ant mill - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you think that you can undo what God Himself has done?

This requires much discussion and contemplation on what we are created for, much discussion about our spiritual capacities.

Is that a conversation you want have?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Then wouldn't it make sense to respond to that someone else?

Personally if I find someone misbehaving I dont go round telling the good people to be good, I address the person misbehaving, but perhaps that's just my M.O *shrugs*

It would help to know what I was responding to:

@Niatero said: Here's a rough draft of my O.P. for the new thread:
This is for any ideas that anyone has for everyday practices that might help improve the world for all people everywhere, now and far into the future.

I said: For starters, it would help if people would stop judging and criticizing other people and look rather at themselves and their own faults.

 

[Vinayaka]

That's an important point. If you and I have different beliefs but don't try and push our beliefs onto each other, but instead listen and respect each other, and maybe even learn from each other, then we've got something.

But some religions teach their followers that what they have is better, truer, and/or has replaced the beliefs of others. Christianity did that to the Jews. Baha'is do it to all the people in all the other religions. And they will tell them why their old religious beliefs are no longer true.

Lots of us just say 'different' and believe it. I do me, and you do you. This is the crux of why I got into discussions with Baha'i in the first place maybe 10 years ago now. They told me my religion was outdated. There are 1.3 billion Hindus, even more Muslims and Christians. That's a lot of people who got insulted.

 

[Secret Chief]

Lots of us just say 'different' and believe it. I do me, and you do you. This is the crux of why I got into discussions with Baha'i in the first place maybe 10 years ago now. They told me my religion was outdated. There are 1.3 billion Hindus, even more Muslims and Christians. That's a lot of people who got insulted.

...and half a billion Buddhists...