Who is the male child in Revelation 12:5?

[XIII-Legion]

Revelation 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who ‘will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre.’ And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

Obviously, the male child is neither the Lamb, nor the Lamb's wife?

So who does it refer to?

 

[Pegg]

Revelation 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who ‘will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre.’ And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

Obviously, the male child is neither the Lamb, nor the Lamb's wife?

So who does it refer to?

Who sits on Gods heavenly throne?

 

[Muffled]

Who sits on Gods heavenly throne?

Try interpreting " caught up" as "sitting" and tell me how you figure that one out.

I would love to see the Greek on this phrase and even if the Latin is "rapio."

Somehow I see this as more symbolic than actual, since the ruling will be on earth. I don't perceive any spacial flip flops.

 

[Muffled]

Revelation 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who ‘will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre.’ And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

Obviously, the male child is neither the Lamb, nor the Lamb's wife?

So who does it refer to?

I don't believe it refers to a person but to a thing. I believe it is an asteroid that will destroy the earth.

As I see it the mother is the planet Jupiter which is assaulted by a dragon ie the Shoemaker-Levy comet. The comet is tossed to the ground of Jupiter casing a chunk of jupiter (the child) to be tossed out into space. We (acting as Michael symbolically) will try to shoot it down with missilies but will only succeed in dividing it into big chunks that will still have a devastating affect on earth.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Revelation 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who ‘will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre.’ And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

Obviously, the male child is neither the Lamb, nor the Lamb's wife?

So who does it refer to?

Jesus. The event is a mystical perspective on his life and purpose.

Then again, this is a personal interpretation based on what I believe is a more logical timeline of the angelic fall, so eh.

 

[XIII-Legion]

Who sits on Gods heavenly throne?

But your Christianity is useless without the grace and redemption of JESUS. (Acts 10:42; John 5:22-23, 5:27, 14:6-7)

What makes you think you will survive the last day of judgement? (Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 9:15-16).

 

[Pegg]

Try interpreting " caught up" as "sitting" and tell me how you figure that one out.

I would love to see the Greek on this phrase and even if the Latin is "rapio."

Somehow I see this as more symbolic than actual, since the ruling will be on earth. I don't perceive any spacial flip flops.

The jerusalem bible puts it this way:

“The woman brought a male child into the world, the son who was to rule all the nations with an iron sceptre, and the child was taken straight up to God and to his throne.”—Revelation 12:1-5

There is only one who was taken to God and his throne.

 

[Pegg]

But your Christianity is useless without the grace and redemption of JESUS. (Acts 10:42; John 5:22-23, 5:27, 14:6-7)

What makes you think you will survive the last day of judgement? (Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 9:15-16).

what has my salvation got to do with the question about who sits on Gods throne?

 

[Pegg]

*post moderated*

the name of Jesus is not found anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures.

Exodus chapter 3 has only one name...YHWH or Jehovah.

I certainly agree that salvation lies in the hands of Jehovah. Its as Jesus himself said:

John 6:44  No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him,...'

 

[XIII-Legion]

the name of Jesus is not found anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures.

You refer to Hebrew scriptures, but I'm talking about Christianity.

Doesn't matter what Hebrews think; but Christians believe that JESUS IS GOD.

So obviously, you are not a Christian then?

Exodus chapter 3 has only one name...YHWH or Jehovah.

Wrong. Yahweh or Jehovah is the name of God according to Hebrews. But such a name is nowhere to be seen in the English translation of the Bible.

I certainly agree that salvation lies in the hands of Jehovah. Its as Jesus himself said:

John 6:44  No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him,...'

Wrong. Salvation lies in the hands of Jehovah AND Jesus. (Revelation 20:11-15).

Nevertheless, you are certainly not one of those Christians who will be drawn to Jesus because of the Father. As God Himself does not judge anyone, but has delegated all powers of judgement to the Son. (John 5:22-23, 5:27, 5:30).

So what makes you think you will live forever in heaven without approval and consent by Jesus on the day of judgement? (Revelation 20:15, 21:8).

 

[Pegg]

You refer to Hebrew scriptures, but I'm talking about Christianity.

Considering Jesus teachings are all based on the hebrew scriptures, i find it hard to reconcile how anyone can even begin to understand christianity without them.

Doesn't matter what Hebrews think; but Christians believe that JESUS IS GOD.

So obviously, you are not a Christian then?

If the bible said that Jesus is God, then i'd believe it. But im yet to see anywhere in the christian scriptures where any writer says that Jesus is God.

Rather, we see that the relationship between God and Jesus is explained as a 'father/son' relationship. If the writers or Jesus wanted to help us to know the relationship between God and Jesus to be equal, they could have described the relationship as 'twins' or 'brothers' because these relationships denote 'equality'.... but a 'father' and 'son' does not denote equality of being. We know a 'father' is the lifegiver of the 'son' ... and if Jesus was given life by the Father, then he is not the Father.

I'll take it from the Apostle John:
John 20:30 To be sure, Jesus also performed many other signs before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll. 31 But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

Wrong. Yahweh or Jehovah is the name of God according to Hebrews. But such a name is nowhere to be seen in the English translation of the Bible.

Thats true, but Jesus didnt teach from the Christian scriptures...he taught from the Hebrew scriptures.

So when he read the hebrew scriptures in his day, he saw and read out the name of God as found in it. And when he spoke about the 'Father', he was speaking about the God of the Hebrew scriptures, not himself.

Wrong. Salvation lies in the hands of Jehovah AND Jesus. (Revelation 20:11-15).

Nevertheless, you are certainly not one of those Christians who will be drawn to Jesus because of the Father. As God Himself does not judge anyone, but has delegated all powers of judgement to the Son. (John 5:22-23, 5:27, 5:30).

So what makes you think you will live forever in heaven without approval and consent by Jesus on the day of judgement? (Revelation 20:15, 21:8).

I dont think i'll live forever in heaven.

Nope, thats not my calling.

 

[XIII-Legion]

Considering Jesus teachings are all based on the hebrew scriptures, i find it hard to reconcile how anyone can even begin to understand christianity without them.

But it's useless to refer to the Old Testament in Hebrew since you're not a Jew, and you have no knowledge of Hebrew.

So then, why do you pretend to know Hebrew scriptures if you're not a Jew, and have no knowledge of Hebrew?

Clearly, you're not a Jew.

So why do you pretend to know something if you don't know it?

Edit > Don't you think the Old Testament in English is good enough for you; but instead, you pretend to speak Hebrew, although you're not even a Jew?

If the bible said that Jesus is God, then i'd believe it. But im yet to see anywhere in the christian scriptures where any writer says that Jesus is God.

Doesn't matter if it doesn't say so in the Bible; but this is how all the mainstream churches will interpet the New Testament.

Doesn't matter what your "church" says.

Rather, we see that the relationship between God and Jesus is explained as a 'father/son' relationship.

But who are "we"?

The fact that God and Jesus is explained as a 'father/son' relationship doesn't negate the fact that Jesus is also second person of the Trinity; which means the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one and the same, and equal.

So what you've said is consistent, and compatible with the Trinitarian doctrine. That Jesus is God -- and equal to God -- is thereby consistent, and compatible with the 'father/son' relationship you mentioned.

Besides, your denial of the Trinity is heretical; because your "church" is not part of the mainstream.

Thats true, but Jesus didnt teach from the Christian scriptures...he taught from the Hebrew scriptures.

But then again, why do you refer to the Hebrew scriptures if you're not a Jew?

Why do you pretend to know Hebrew if you're not a Jew?

So when he read the hebrew scriptures in his day, he saw and read out the name of God as found in it. And when he spoke about the 'Father', he was speaking about the God of the Hebrew scriptures, not himself.

Wrong. Jesus said: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6).

Obviously, Jesus is referring to himself in the above passage.

I dont think i'll live forever in heaven.

Nope, thats not my calling.

Well, perhaps my wording isn't clear then?

So let me try and rephrase it:-

Do you think you will survive the last judgement, given that you are not on good terms with Jesus whom God has sent to judge the world? (Acts 10:42; John 5:22-23, 5:27, 5:30; Revelation 13:8, 20:11-15, 21:8).

Edit > However, if all JW's are the same as you the forecast will be ominous for all of you on the day of judgement.

God doesn't care if you're a Christian or not; but unless you accept God's Son Jesus Christ He won't hesitate to destroy all JW's at the last day. (John 5:22-23).

But as far as I'm concerned, your fate is already sealed. (Revelation 20:15).

 

[Estro Felino]

The allegories in Revelation are so many ans so difficult to decipher.

 

[savagewind]

I don't believe it refers to a person but to a thing. I believe it is an asteroid that will destroy the earth.

As I see it the mother is the planet Jupiter which is assaulted by a dragon ie the Shoemaker-Levy comet. The comet is tossed to the ground of Jupiter casing a chunk of jupiter (the child) to be tossed out into space. We (acting as Michael symbolically) will try to shoot it down with missilies but will only succeed in dividing it into big chunks that will still have a devastating affect on earth.

LOL Adorable!

 

[XIII-Legion]

Wow...

And you as well...

 

[psychoslice]

For me its talking about the inner child within all of us, you could call it the Christ consciousness, this is born out of a place within that is not tainted by the outside world, or carnal self.

 

[Pegg]

So you think Jesus is still in heaven and anybody who claims to be Christ is a false prophet?

But how do you know you're not a false prophet; and how do you know the leader of your "church" isn't one?

Besides, the bold letters are only figurative; but they're not meant to be taken literally at all.

Doesn't matter what your "church" says; but what's more important is to look at the mainstream churches, and see what they have to tell you.

Fact is, not a single church in the mainstream would agree with such a novel interpretation of Revelation 12:1-5; which is why your religion is rubbish.

Besides, what good is it to talk about the Jerusalem Bible, when in actual fact, you've never been to Israel?

But instead, you're just a pretentious person who likes to quote from the Hebrew scriptures; but you're not even a Jew...

you wouldn't happen to be from the westbro baptist church would you?

they too have a novel way of 'preaching'

 

[ScuzManiac]

Because your doctrine is heretical nonsense; and your "church" is rubbish.

Wrong. Jesus said: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6).

Obviously, Jesus is referring to himself in the above passage.

1. This section is for debating, not throwing around insults.

2. I wouldn't insult someone when you clearly don't understand the meaning of the verse you quoted. Jesus was referring to himself when he said "I" but he was speaking to his disciples in that verse and giving them a path to God. He wasn't referring to himself as God but as a path TO God....

Because...

He goes on to say: "If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

Jesus referred to himself as the ultimate path to God.

NOT as God.

 

[jtartar]

Revelation 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who ‘will rule all the nations with an iron sceptre.’ And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

Obviously, the male child is neither the Lamb, nor the Lamb's wife?

So who does it refer to?

Legion,
You are correct, this child is not Jesus or the Lambs wife.
Start at Rev 12:1thru 5. Notice the woman mentioned, she could not be a real woman, she is what is called God's Woman. Just as we have groups of men today, that make up an organization, this Woman seemingly signifies the 24Elders, mentioned first at Rev 4:4. These make up the organization that produced The King of God's Kingdom on earth, Jesus The Millennial King.
Notice that this woman is pregnant. The child is not picturing Jesus as being born, but the birth of The Kingdom that Jesus rules over. Jesus, by this time had been alive for untold billions of years, but his Kingdom was just starting, at that time.
Consider what happened right after the Kingdom was born. There was WAR in heaven, and Satan and his demon angels were thrown down to the earth, Rev 12:7-12.
Now think, this was in our time, the end time!! What conditions would start to happen on earth, with all these demons and Satan HERE?? Would there not be extremely bad conditions on earth, and every bad condition already here would get worse.
Think back a few years to the year 1914. If you do not know the conditions on earth just before 1914, I beg you to research the newspapers online about 1913, and early 1914. There had been so many great things happening, that people thought that the world was going to soon become a utopia. THEN, the next thing they knew they were in the First total World WAR, still called today, The Great War. This is what happened when Satan was thrown to earth.
This date of 1914 is a very important date, it was prophesied by Daniel the Prophet, at Dan chapter 4. This great Tree was a sign of God's Kingdom on earth, ant the time it would cease, and then begin again. The 7 times were not 7 years, but 7x 360- which were the days in a year in ancient prophecy. 7 x 360 is 2,520 years. This is the exact time of 1914, because God allowed Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon to destroy Jerusalem and the Great Temple that Solomon had build in 607 BC. If you add 2,520 years to 607 BC, remembering there was no zero year, you come to 1914. No coincidence!!!
Revelation chapter 6 also is another prophecy concerning the time of the beginning of the Kingdom. Notice verse 2. This is Jesus on the white horse, receiving the Kingdom rule. Now in the verses after this, 3-8 we see the other three horses of the Apocalypse, with the second horse picturing War, exactly what happened when the Kingdom was born. Then more and more terrible conditions, exactly as we are seeing today.

 

[bird]

The male child in Revelation 12 is a picture of Christ as well as of his true believers. It references a particular time as well. The Bible uses parable language and frequently describes groups of persons as a single person. For example, the woman of Revelation 12:5 is the group of true believers during a time period known as the great tribulation. This is a time period towards the end of the church age, when the congregations (unlike her) fall away from the gospel. She is set in that time period because she is called a great wonder. The adjective 'great' alludes to the great tribulation by parable language. Further, John 16:21-22 lets us know that it is the hour of tribulation when a woman is in travail. The term 'hour' is not a literal hour of 60 minutes but just a time period, the great tribulation. She is clothed with the sun meaning the true believers are clothed with Christ; he is the sun by parable language. Further, she has the moon under her feet, meaning she is not affected by the penalty of the law. The law is the moon by parable language, but she is free from the wages of sin because of what Christ did on the cross. Remember how Noah and his true believers entered into the covenant ark and the flood did not reach them, but later the tribulation of the flood was over and they were free to go forth and multiply. Similarly, after the tribulation, the man child (the true believers) will be free to flourish and multiply with no limit on the Holy Spirit from Christ. During the tribulation birth pangs, if you will, the Holy Spirit was absent from the congregations, and the true believers were dead to the congregations in the sense that their message found no place there (Revelation 11:8). But after that time, there will be persons in the world who will receive the gospel again. No longer will there be silence in heaven (with no one being saved). Instead, there will be people around the world who receive the gospel. The iron rod or scepter of the man child indicates Christ and his true believers have spiritual authority, and those who once persecuted Christ will not have such authority, and may even be subject to affliction in the sense that those who once ruled over the true believers wrongly will perhaps find the tables turned in some way. I am not overly sure about all that the iron rod is illustrating, and I can see that you posed your question about the man child wondering how a lamb like Christ could be pictured with an iron rod. However, there are many ways to picture Christ's reign through the Holy Spirit using parable language. Conquering and horses and swords and thrones are all associated with him even though these are not literal physical things, but moves of the word, spiritual victory, spiritual authority and so forth. Consider that Isaac was born at a set time when Sarah was past childbearing age. So the man child is born late in the game, so to speak. Both Isaac and the man child are probably parable pictures of the same group of true believers.
"A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you." John 16:21-22
Notice Jesus' reference to the true believers being able to see him again after the tribulation hour. This may only mean that we can see him in the spiritual sense of believing or hear the gospel correctly, but it is basically salvation for the true believers. Further, this is evidence that the man child in Rev 12 is Jesus in that sense, after the tribulation of birth.