Who Is Satan?

[Repox]

You are making a grave mistake.
G-d is the Creator and Maintainer of the universe.
satan is merely a created being.

You are ascribing more power to satan than he actually has.
satan has no power at all without G-d's permission.
G-d allows satan to "do what he wills", just as He allows us to do as we will.

..but only for a time appointed.

I need to clarify. Satan caused havoc in heaven. God created the universe to imprison Satan. So, without the universe, there would be no humans. One may, however, make the traditional religious argument, the one about Adam and Eve.

 

[Sedim Haba]

The original serpent..

"14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life,
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel"
-Genesis 3-

The above refers to ha-satan. The same as in Job.


..no, not obedient.
ha-satan is an adversary. G-d allows satan to torment Job.
It is not a case of G-d directly employing an agent to make Job suffer.

You might ask .. what is the difference? If G-d allows satan to inflict suffering on Job it amounts to the same thing.
Not in my opinion, it doesn't.
I don't believe that G-d encourages evil. One can say that if none of His creation had free-will, then there would BE no evil.

I am aware that there are differences of opinion about ha-satan in the various sects of Judasim.

I am aware of the tie between the Serpent in Eden and HaSatan, but I have my own
admittedly non-orthodox view of that serpent and most Jews separate the two.

As I've said in the past, HaSatan is a title, not a name. There can and indeed are
multiple Satans as you have rightly pointed out. The Angel with this title is the most
disturbing as you can admit, but Angels can be tasked with the most unpleasant jobs.
Angels destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah, the very same ones who were with Father
Abraham. The HaSatan Angel is in Job. G-d gives him limits and HaSatan abides by
these limits. That's what I mean by obedient.

Many ponder the meaning in Job. Why G-d does allows this all to happen to him.
There was a thread long long ago I read here on RF, IDK where or when but the
reasons have stayed with me forever. Too tired to go find them, almost 3 AM.

Shalom / Salam

 

[muhammad_isa]

The HaSatan Angel is in Job. G-d gives him limits and HaSatan abides by these limits. That's what I mean by obedient.

..and peace be with you
Yes, satan cannot do something that G-d disallows.

Why would G-d not let satan to do his mischief, but allow us to murder each other?
Evil is a bit like a disease. It spreads.
There are a number of things we can do to ward off evil.
Two important things are the rememberance of G-d and fasting, of course.

Many ponder the meaning in Job. Why G-d does allows this all to happen to him..

Ah, yes. The so-called problem of evil. A topic in itself.
Why has G-d created creatures capable of disobedience?
That, as I see it, is what it is really all about.

If it wasn't possible for any of G-d's creation to have turned away from G-d, then there would be no test .. there would be no satan.

 

[Repox]

Please show me in the Tanakh (your so-called OT) this rebellion in Heaven.

I don't think you'll find it in the Old Testament. I believe it because I've had revelations about it. I could post my revelations, but to no avail, no one would believe it. I have no authority to equal the Bible. However, knowing the Bible preceded the Koran, I accept the Bible as a reliable authority.

 

[Sedim Haba]

.There are a number of things we can do to ward off evil.
Two important things are the rememberance of G-d and fasting, of course.


Ah, yes. The so-called problem of evil. A topic in itself.
Why has G-d created creatures capable of disobedience?
That, as I see it, is what it is really all about.

If it wasn't possible for any of G-d's creation to have turned away from G-d, then there would be no test .. there would be no satan.

Ah, so much is packed in here. Things I've been contemplating myself a long time.

You know how it is said, Adam is created in the image of G-d,
And how G-d said "it is not good for the man to be alone" (Genesis 2:18)
... from this we see why G-d created Man, a 'helper', a companion, an Other.

We too seek the Other, in all cultures, in all ages, even today in modern culture: Aliens.

True Other must by definition be independent, be free, have free will. Angels failed.
Unlike them, we cannot see the Throne of Glory, but also we can fail to see more
than the dirt at our feet, the base physical world that surrounds us. Fail to see the Holy.

That is why it's so common to see reminders and remembrances in Torah and more.
Mezuzah, Teffilin, the Call to Prayer, (Adhan) all things we choose to remind us,
elevate us above the physical, the base. WE choose, not thrust upon us as the Angels.

So, you can see the purpose of HaSatan. Without temptation, the balance of good &
evil, we could so easily become as the Angels, without a choice NO FREE WILL.

May we all choose the path of Right, whichever path is that is right for us.

Shalom / Salam

 

[Sedim Haba]

I don't think you'll find it in the Old Testament. I believe it because I've had revelations about it. I could post my revelations, but to no avail, no one would believe it. I have no authority to equal the Bible. However, knowing the Bible preceded the Koran, I accept the Bible as a reliable authority.

Today, there are no prophets, yet all who Seek are accorded some measure of prophecy.

I myself have been shown things of the (possible) future, but all is conditional in prophecy.

What you do with it, well, presenting it as proof in a forum is not the right way.

Outside of the Revelation of the Torah, all is pointing to the Torah and illuminating it.

 

[Repox]

1. I don't think you'll find it in the Old Testament. There is no authority to equal the Bible. Knowing the Bible preceded the Koran, and in some ways contradicts the Bible, I don't accept the Koran. When it comes to spiritual matters, there is no proof. /QUOTE]

 

[Repox]

I have had revelations. However, because they don't agree with most religions, there're not subject to debated. How do you debate ideas without authority? It's not worth the conflict.