Which existed first "something" or "nothing"?

[paarsurrey]

You didn't answer my question, though. Why do you jump to the conclusion of God instead of just assuming it is some natural phenomenon that we simply don't know about yet?

.....hence it is gibberish.
Regards

 

[leibowde84]

.....hence it is gibberish.
Regards

What is "gibberish"? And, why?

 

[paarsurrey]

You didn't answer my question, though. Why do you jump to the conclusion of God instead of just assuming it is some natural phenomenon that we simply don't know about yet?

Why should one have faith that it must be a natural phenomenon? On what scientific grounds? If one assumption is correct to have, the other assumption is also correct that G-d wante to have it that way.

Regards

 

[leibowde84]

Why should one have faith that it must be a natural phenomenon? On what scientific grounds? If one assumption is correct to have, the other assumption is also correct that G-d wante to have it that way.

Regards

My question is why should we assume either without evidence supporting it. It's not like we have a gun to our heads forcing us to pick one or the other. I just can't figure out why one would jump to the conclusion of God when it seems to be irrational without further evidence or understanding.

 

[paarsurrey]

My question is why should we assume either without evidence supporting it. It's not like we have a gun to our heads forcing us to pick one or the other. I just can't figure out why one would jump to the conclusion of God when it seems to be irrational without further evidence or understanding.

Because we humans are not machines, we do think and make conclusions. The Universe is there before our eyes as evidence, it must have a creator. Why wait for science to tell us? Science is deaf, dumb and blind. It is a tool evolved/given by G-d to us to benefit from it in the physical realm, useless in other realms. In other realms it gets overburdened and incapacitated and gibberish.
Regards

 

[leibowde84]

Because we humans are not machines, we do think and make conclusions. The Universe is there before our eyes as evidence, it must have a creator. Why wait for science to tell us? Science is deaf, dumb and blind. It is a tool evolved/given by G-d to us to benefit from it in the physical realm, useless in other realms. In other realms it gets overburdened and incapacitated and gibberish.
Regards

But, that is merely an assumption that "the universe must have had a creator"? What specifically leads you to this assumption?

 

[Deathbydefault]

yeah, well....a personal testimony would be hard to accept.
especially when you don't want to.

Such was the reception when Jesus spoke of God as .....Father.

Even outside of an evidenced standpoint, it simply does not hold much weight in an argument.
It isn't a matter of whether or not I want to accept it, I don't because it is wise not to.

If you want to present it further you would need to provide some form of evidence, though, that they are one in the same mind.
Use a "holy" book if you so please, I have not seen, nor do I recall seeing anything that would uphold the claim that God and his supposed son, Jesus, have the exact same mindset.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Everything is made up of many different individual somethings.... each something is eternal, with no beginning and no end.

And the many different things are essentially parts of one absolute....unless you believe there is no universal omnipresence?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

God is His creation?

God is eternal....without beginning or end....

 

[idea]

And the many different things are essentially parts of one absolute....unless you believe there is no universal omnipresence?

I believe that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all (that's a scripture). Everything that is good comes from God, everything that is evil and unformed does not. I believe that God knows everything, and has power over everything (although He chooses not to fully use this power - He will not take away our free will), but God is an individual - an independent entity, as we all are.

I believe that God is not the only eternal entity... I believe that everything is eternal.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I believe that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all (that's a scripture). Everything that is good comes from God, everything that is evil and unformed does not. I believe that God knows everything, and has power over everything (although He chooses not to fully use this power - He will not take away our free will), but God is an individual - an independent entity, as we all are.

I believe that God is not the only eternal entity... I believe that everything is eternal.

First...God creates the darkness...and the light....Isaiah 45:7 .... "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Secondly...if you think God is not one, what fills the space separating God from things not God?

 

[paarsurrey]

But, that is merely an assumption that "the universe must have had a creator"? What specifically leads you to this assumption?

The Creator has told us.
Regards

 

[idea]

First...God creates the darkness...and the light....Isaiah 45:7 .... "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Secondly...if you think God is not one, what fills the space separating God from things not God?

First, the word "create" is better translated as "transform" or "organize"

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/5_creator.html
Child Root (Branches of the Tree)

Pronunciation: "Qa-NeH"
Meaning: To build a nest.
Comments: This child root is a nest builder, one who builds a nest such as a bird. Also God as in Bereshiyt (Genesis) 14.19; "God most high creator (qaneh) of sky and earth". The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foreign concept to the Hebrews. While we see God as one who makes something from nothing (create), the Hebrews saw God like a bird who goes about acquiring and gathering materials to build a nest (qen), the sky and earth. The Hebrews saw man as the children (eggs) that God built the nest for.


So God organized the darkness into light
God does not create evil - God transforms evil into good.

1 J 1:5 God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
1 J 4:8 God is love.

I believe in the corporeal nature of God - that we are His children, formed in His image, that His image is that of a person - that he has a body similar to ours only perfect - the following scriptures describe the nature of God, that He has fingers, a face, a back, etc.

• God created man in his own image: Gen. 1:27 . - in our image

• God created man, in the likeness of God made he him: Gen. 5:1 .

• in the image of God made he man: Gen. 9:6 .

• Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing: Gen. 18:33 . - a being who comes and goes, is not all present.

• I have seen God face to face: Gen. 32:30 . → God has a face

• they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet: Ex. 24:10 . → He has feet

• written with the finger of God: Ex. 31:18 . ( Deut. 9:10 . ) → He has fingers

• Lord spake unto Moses face to face: Ex. 33:11 .

• thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen: Ex. 33:23 . → he has a back

• With him will I speak mouth to mouth: Num. 12:8 . → he has a mouth

• a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son: Matt. 3:17 .
• every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God: Matt. 4:4 .
• a voice out of the cloud: Matt. 17:5 .
• for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have: Luke 24:39 .
• he that hath seen me hath seen the Father: John 14:9 .
• the Son of man standing on the right hand of God: Acts 7:56 .
• predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son: Rom. 8:29 .
• Christ, who is the image of God: 2 Cor. 4:4 .
• Who, being in the form of God: Philip. 2:6 .
• our vile body … fashioned like unto his glorious body: Philip. 3:21 .
• Who is the image of the invisible God: Col. 1:15 .
• the express image of his person: Heb. 1:3 .
• men, which are made after the similitude of God: James 3:9 .
• when he shall appear, we shall be like him: 1 Jn. 3:2 .
• they shall see his face: Rev. 22:4 .

When you read the above, it seems apparent that God is a person - with feet, hands, face, mouth, fingers, etc. etc. just like us.... Just like Christ was a person.


Gen 3:9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

God comes and goes, sometimes we are near Him, other times we are not.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

First, the word "create" is better translated as "transform" or "organize"

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/5_creator.html
Child Root (Branches of the Tree)

Pronunciation: "Qa-NeH"
Meaning: To build a nest.
Comments: This child root is a nest builder, one who builds a nest such as a bird. Also God as in Bereshiyt (Genesis) 14.19; "God most high creator (qaneh) of sky and earth". The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foreign concept to the Hebrews. While we see God as one who makes something from nothing (create), the Hebrews saw God like a bird who goes about acquiring and gathering materials to build a nest (qen), the sky and earth. The Hebrews saw man as the children (eggs) that God built the nest for.


So God organized the darkness into light
God does not create evil - God transforms evil into good.

1 J 1:5 God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
1 J 4:8 God is love.

I believe in the corporeal nature of God - that we are His children, formed in His image, that His image is that of a person - that he has a body similar to ours only perfect - the following scriptures describe the nature of God, that He has fingers, a face, a back, etc.



When you read the above, it seems apparent that God is a person - with feet, hands, face, mouth, fingers, etc. etc. just like us.... Just like Christ was a person.


Gen 3:9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

God comes and goes, sometimes we are near Him, other times we are not.

 

[leibowde84]

The Creator has told us.
Regards

Please be respectful. That isn't an answer, it's a generality that doesnt really mean anything. Plus, it makes you look like you are looking down on those who "didn't hear it". What can you point to that is verifiable and doesn't merely enlist an unfalsifiable claim or circular reasoning?

 

[paarsurrey]

Please be respectful. That isn't an answer, it's a generality that doesnt really mean anything. Plus, it makes you look like you are looking down on those who "didn't hear it". What can you point to that is verifiable and doesn't merely enlist an unfalsifiable claim or circular reasoning?

OK, I become specific:
[6:2]All praise belongs to Allah Who created the heavens and the earth and brought into being every kind of darkness and light; yet those who disbelieve set up equals to their Lord.
The Holy Quran : Chapter 6: Al-An`am الاٴنعَام

You can verify it, just open the Quran and look for chapter 6 verse 2.
Regards

 

[Thief]

I never said that God wasn't a possibility. But, what support do you have for your claim that God IS the answer rather than some cause we aren't aware of that is natural?

flip a coin....

If God is NOT the cause.....then all we are sure of by cause and effect may be bogus.

To say substance is self starting (even by a means we don't know).....
would declare substance AS self starting.
and dead things can beget life.

 

[Thief]

Even outside of an evidenced standpoint, it simply does not hold much weight in an argument.
It isn't a matter of whether or not I want to accept it, I don't because it is wise not to.

If you want to present it further you would need to provide some form of evidence, though, that they are one in the same mind.
Use a "holy" book if you so please, I have not seen, nor do I recall seeing anything that would uphold the claim that God and his supposed son, Jesus, have the exact same mindset.

see my previous post

 

[Thief]

God is eternal....without beginning or end....

ok....but I recognize a transition...
at some point (I say, the point of singularity) God formed as WORD (see Genesis)...
He then pronounced ....IAM!...
which I consider to be synonymous to.......Let there be light!

 

[Deathbydefault]

see my previous post

I will reiterate that it is unwise to accept such a claim without proof.
Even as an adolescent I could see that.
It isn't a matter of whether or not I want to accept it, you've simply given me no valid reason to accept it.

Well, other than 'because I said so'.

If you want me to accept it on just that then I may need to kill 40 or so IQ points.
My brain simply just does not work that way.