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which English Quran translates the true meaning?

Discussion in 'Religious Books and Scriptures' started by SA Huguenot, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Please note, this post is not intended to be debated, it is a honest request from me to anyone who can enlighten me on which English Quran exists that I can read to give me the 100% true meanings of words from Arabic to English, and not some whitewashed words to hide perhaps some words which the translators might think can be perceived as vulgar, and they then take the initiative to disguise such descriptions thinking they do God a favor..
    The Bible, especially the KJV says it as it is, and even uses the words **** and **** with no problem to me as a student of religion.

    I have quite a few Qurans which I read through now and then, but because I am not Arabic speaking, I have to rely on the English translations to find out what it says.
    The Yusuf Ali, Sahee International, Rodwell, Sale, Pichtal, are all very poorly translated.
    • For instance, the description in the Quran about Mary conceiving is whitewashed to the eyes of the non Arab Westerner.
    Sahih International: And [the example of] Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity, so We blew into [her garment] through Our angel, ...

    Yusuf Ali: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; ...

    Muhammad Sarwar: He has also told, as a parable, the story of Mary, daughter of Imran who preserved her virginity and (into whose womb) We breathed Our spirit. ...

    Mohsin Khan: And Maryam (Mary), the daughter of 'Imran who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (the sleeve of her shirt or her garment) through Our Ruh [i.e. Jibrael (Gabriel)], ...

    Arberry: And Mary, Imran's daughter, who guarded her virginity, so We breathed into her of Our Spirit,...

    Here we find a whole range of ideas placed in the translation of the Quran, from Allah blowing into Mary's slieve to him blowing into her womb, whilst not a single one is translating the real truth.
    The real word to be translated is Farajah, which the Arab men and women know means thje female private part, but the translators are all over the spectrum yo cover this up.
    Why?
    Furthermore, not even the translation of Ruh, the "My Spirit" gts translated in the pure sense of honesty, but bias gets injected into the non Muslim mind that this spirit of Allah is Gabriel by some translators!

    I like Muhammad Sawar, because he tends to use the propper English words to relay the meaning of the Arab wording, but he adds a lot of words in brackets to impose his thinking thereby also watering down the strong language the Quran has.

    I puschased the "Perfect Quran" by Osama Dakdok, and like the more precise wording, but there are still a lot of shortcommings on the English language he uses, and sometimes I have to read a passage a few times before I understand what he said.
    I am experienced in identifying when someone are not great in English, because English is my 3rd language, and I always discover how poorly I present my thoughts to the reader. Sometimes I cant believe how bad I am doing when I read what I wrote.

    Now, I saw there is a Quran that was compiled by Gordon D. Nickel, the Quran with Christian Commentary.
    This is a Arthur Droge translation.
    I never heard of him. I learned that he does translate the words correct throughout the quran. And he was a
    A review of A.J. Droge, The Qur’an: A New Annotated Translation

    Can anyone give me some more information on the above, or even suggest an English Quran that does translate correctly?

    Greetings.
     
    #1 SA Huguenot, Apr 6, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2022
  2. Rival

    Rival Ecclesia Gentium
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    I'm not sure it uses the s-word, but the p-word was standard then. It wasn't vulgar.
     
  3. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    There is no such thing as a 100% true meaning translation.

    Translation of any text is not simply a matter of replacing one word with another but requires a fair degree of interpretation and is dependent on methodological priorities.

    For example, think of a poem and how you would translate that? What would you prioritise?
    You could focus on rhyme scheme, but this rarely works if you translate literally so you have to adapt. Metre? Same issue. Do you aim to translate metaphors to reflect the original, or to the equivalent metaphor in the target language even if it is completely different? What happens when you have double meanings/homonyms, etc. that aren't retained by translation? These are just some of the issues to be considered.

    There is no 'objective' translation of any text, which is why there are many different translations. This would be expected even if there was 100% understanding of every passage in a text.

    Can I read a translation without meaning being impacted by the decisions of the translator? No, it's impossible.

    With the Quran this also may involve interpolation (the parts of the text in brackets) or interpretation that relies on external sources (sirah/hadith).


    From my experience, the translation most used by Western scholars is Arberry as it aims to remain grammatically close to the original and has less interpolation and interpretation of passages by reference to sirah/hadith (less, not none).

    Why do you assume it is a "cover up"?
     
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  4. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    TNX, I just wonderred if there was any better translation.
     
  5. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I do not want to debate, and it is my experience i refeered to.
    Greetings.
    And yes, I do agree that translations will never be the same as the original, but to use deliberate different words in English to what the Arabic means, is wrong.
    Doing so unintentionally might be forgiven, but doing it intentionally is fraud.
    As I said, I do not want to debate, and I wondered only if anyone read the Arthur Droge translation before I waste more money on a book that doies not reflect a true translation.

    My opinion on why the Quran can be translated unbias, is because the Bible was done in that fasion.
    We have Transliterations, in books, on Apps and software.
    Word by Word publications etc.
    And to translate from Hebrew and Greek is 10 times more difficuilt than Arabic to English.
    Furthermore, the Quran is a very small volume with a very limited vocabulary.
     
  6. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

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    I asked once about koran and got below reply about different versions
    Challenge: Should the Koran be taken literally or NOT?
     
  7. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
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    Yes.

    What I do is refer to many different translations. For example: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

    Sahih International: And We said after Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, "Dwell in the land, and when there comes the promise of the Hereafter, We will bring you forth in [one] gathering."

    Pickthall: And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.

    Yusuf Ali: And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

    Shakir: And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.

    Muhammad Sarwar: We told the Israelites after this to settle in the land until Our second promise will come true. We would then gather them all together (on the Day of Judgment).

    Mohsin Khan: And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations).[Tafsir Al-Qurtubi, Vol. 10, Page 338]

    Arberry: And We said to the Children of Israel after him, 'Dwell in the land; and when the promise of the world to come comes to pass, We shall bring you a rabble.'
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    One may like the following:
    Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search
    For understanding the correct meaning one shall have
    • pray to G-d
    • to ponder on the context verses,
    • the other place of Quran where the same word/s has been used.
    Right?

    Regards
     
  9. Link

    Link Veteran Member
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    You can also do this trick. Read transliterations, keep in mind words, and then you remember words translated one way somewhere else, to open up possible meanings for where the same word is translated differently.

    For example, "Momineen", believers all over right? Yet no one translates God "the believer" but as the granter of safety/security, the one who secures and grants safety, etc, in the verse where God is called "Al-Momin".

    This opens up possibilities of some places where "believers" can be translated as "Granters of (spiritual) security/safety" or "Those who granted safety/security" so not always referring to believers by the word.

    This is a good trick. Everyone translates practically "we found ourselves our forefathers on a course/way" (one or two exceptions don't) and so now you know something translated as nation or nations, can also be translated as "a way" "ways".

    Then there is some there is no way to know unless you do research SINCE ALL translators of the words leave a possible meaning out. This is hard. But an example of this is "Asbaat", it means branches, and parable wise can be tribes or grandchildren or children depending on viewpoint of the parable, but original meaning means "branches" and by parable it can refer to other things.

    But the trick to see what words are translated as, and then be able to see alternate meaning even if not found in a translation is very good.

    Try it out.
     
  10. Link

    Link Veteran Member
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    This is the proper meaning in my view. Simplest translation and not complicating things for nothing.
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I've enjoyed The Message of the Qur'an by Muhammad Asad. I purchased it based on a strong recommendation I received at Chicago's Iqra Book Center, a recommendation likely influenced by the the Jewish background of its author.
     
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