What's wrong with death?

[tomspug]

Is death really a bad thing? If someone dies in a tragic accident, it's really ourselves we mourn for, isn't it? I'd say that death is really more inconvenient than tragic. We want life to be a certain way, and death makes it not that way.

But of course, I think there is certainly something wrong with murder. Again, murder doesn't affect the victim, because they are dead, so it's no big deal to them. But murder is an act against those that are affected by the death. For example, what made Martin Luther King Jr.'s death horrible was the loss of him no longer being able to contribute to society. There would be no more speeches or messages or sermons or actions done by him specifically.

So maybe people could say that death itself is a bad thing because death shouldn't exist. But that would imply that existence itself is a bad thing, that it should be different. And if you believe in God, then maybe you would say that death is God's fault. That would make God a murderer of everyone, which wouldn't put him in much of a position to say "thou shalt not kill".

So, logically, if God is immoral and a murderer, than maybe his laws against things like murder are irrelevant. Maybe murder isn't bad.

But if God is good and death ISN'T his fault, whose is it? Because it's either his fault or it isn't. The only option is that death itself is not bad for existing, merely a natural process just like everything else. If one will continue to attest that it is bad that death exists, then perhaps their was a CAUSE for death's existence that was bad?

Remember, we can't say that God was the cause unless we are willing to reject conventional morality. Because why would a murdering God try to convince us that murder was bad?

 

[Phasmid]

Death's not a bad thing... suffering is. I think it's often the case that we associate death with suffering e.g. being stabbed to death is a painful way to go. But the bad part there isn't the death, it's the method of death. In fact, death is probably a VERY good thing in this instance since it's THE END OF SUFFERING.

Death also means an appreciation for life and the time we have before it's over... in fact a world without death would really suck. Also, can you really have life without death?

As for tying it into God... well...I don't know. If He wants us to remain in Heaven with Him for all eternity, then I don't see a purpose in death. He decided the punishment for sin was death... not us.

 

[kdrier]

I think god set up the pins for us to knock down. I don't think "god" murders anyone on purpose, I think it's just the process of life. You can't have life without death, black without white, or up without down, it's the balance of life. Without the concept of death life wouldnt' be nearly as good, it would get old, boring, seemingly pointless. I don't think death is a bad thing, it sucks for the people it effects but at the end of the day that just makes them stronger individuals. As far as christians are concerend I'm sure they don't mind too much because that person is apparently "in a better place"

 

[kai]

the trouble with death is ,its the end of life !

 

[tomspug]

He decided the punishment for sin was death... not us.

Exactly! And you just said yourself that death isn't a bad thing, so what's the big deal?

 

[tomspug]

the trouble with death is ,its the end of life !

Is it?

 

[kai]

Is it?

it is for life jim ,for life as we know it

 

[.lava]

death is living people's issue, not the dead ones. i guess that is the problem. we hear or see people die and according to living ones, it appears to be that person is separated from us. but maybe, in fact, we are the ones who's separated. imagine how many people are there on earth still alive and imagine how many dead people after ages. if we compare numbers we are not so many, are we?

 

[Jeremiah]

Is death really a bad thing?

"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd."
William Shakespeare

 

[BucephalusBB]

Is death really a bad thing? If someone dies in a tragic accident, it's really ourselves we mourn for, isn't it? I'd say that death is really more inconvenient than tragic. We want life to be a certain way, and death makes it not that way.

So... Death is a bad thing

 

[Father Heathen]

If death isn't a bad thing, why prolong the wait until you land in Jesus' arms?

 

[Magic Man]

Is death really a bad thing? If someone dies in a tragic accident, it's really ourselves we mourn for, isn't it?

You've hit the nail on the head. Especially when talking about Christianity where most people believe in heaven. If your wife or husband dies, generally you're going to assume that they go to heaven, which means that they couldn't be happier. So, then you should be celebrating it. The problem is that now you're left behind to deal with this life without them, and so you feel sorry for yourself. If you can just be happy for them, it helps a lot with the grief.

Also, tragedy is a human concept. Death is not inherently anything other than an end to this existence. It is a human judgement that some ways to die are worse or better than others.

 

[cardero]

Tomspug writes: Is death really a bad thing? If someone dies in a tragic accident, it's really ourselves we mourn for, isn't it?

You raise an interesting point. The opinion that death is a tragedy is the first thing that has to be overcome. We do not know what the afterlife holds and you are right, the only people who designate a “tragic accident” are the people who are still alive. I would say these people have a deep rooted misunderstanding about death and dying.


The person coming up to YOU and looking at a shooting victim and saying to YOU "Gee, what a tragedy" – who are they to tell YOU that it looks like a tragedy? YOU might think differently. YOU might think just the opposite. Get enough people to come up to YOU and tell YOU what a tragedy it is, and soon YOU might BE looking at the corpse in a different way. Not because the scene has changed. The corpse hasn't been touched. YOUR opinions have, though. Soon a hundred people come up to YOU and are telling YOU how tragic it ALL is. Are ALL of these people CORRECT?

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The Columbine High School Incident
Pg: 178

Tomspug writes: But of course, I think there is certainly something wrong with murder. Again, murder doesn't affect the victim, because they are dead, so it's no big deal to them. But murder is an act against those that are affected by the death. For example, what made Martin Luther King Jr.'s death horrible was the loss of him no longer being able to contribute to society. There would be no more speeches or messages or sermons or actions done by him specifically.

Again it depends on how one looks at it. There seems to be a reliance on the living until they die. There are many people who think that peace and security is a promised or is a guarantee. A particular observation about death that should always be considered is that it could happen to any one, at any time, in any way.

Tomspug writes: So maybe people could say that death itself is a bad thing because death shouldn't exist.

Judging death is not going to stop it from happening. People’s judgments and opinions are irrelevant to the process of death.

Do not put blame where it does not belong. Do not extort or exploit other reasons or other people for your loss of somebody else's life. Life does what it has to do. You have to live and you have to die. Death is not wrong. Neither is life.

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The Columbine High School Incident
Pg: 184

Tomspug writes: But that would imply that existence itself is a bad thing, that it should be different. And if you believe in God, then maybe you would say that death is God's fault. That would make God a murderer of everyone, which wouldn't put him in much of a position to say "thou shalt not kill".

But if a spiritual entity chooses a physical existence (instead of GOD) and this entity also chooses it’s own means of exit (instead of GOD) than there is no reason to look towards GOD for fault or blame.

Tomspug writes: So, logically, if God is immoral and a murderer, than maybe his laws against things like murder are irrelevant. Maybe murder isn't bad.

Death is an appointment that has to be kept in order to work. If a physical entity is present during it’s own murder then one way to look at it is that it is the means in which the entity chose to exit. Consider murder a form of assisted suicide. If it was arranged previously (by the spiritual entity choosing to incarnate into a physical existence) to release itself from the earth than GOD has no judgment whether the death is good and bad.

I don't rate death. I do not critique death. I have no such concerns in the matter.

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The Columbine High School Incident
Pg: 178

Tomspug writes: But if God is good and death ISN'T his fault, whose is it?

I believe it is ours but that it is not a fault but intentional.

Tomspug writes: Remember, we can't say that God was the cause unless we are willing to reject conventional morality. Because why would a murdering God try to convince us that murder was bad?

I do not view DEATH as a tragedy; I view it as a TRUTH, a joy. I do not categorize DEATH as violent or non-violent, common or uncommon, right or wrong, CORRECT or INCORRECT. I draw no such conclusions.

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The Columbine High School Incident
Pg: 177-178

 

[ofir]

bad\good...
the real big deal is accepting it.