Niatero
*banned*
Yes, I know that.Do you know that the term ‘God’ is a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE as well as an ADVERB.
When I say "God," I mean the God of Abraham, not claiming to actually know anything about Him.
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Yes, I know that.Do you know that the term ‘God’ is a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE as well as an ADVERB.
A SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE……!!!!Yes, I know that.
When I say "God," I mean the God of Abraham, not claiming to actually know anything about Him.
So, Brian2, you are “caught between a rock and a hard place”!!
You agree that Jesus Christ is NOT the FIRST TO BE BORN OF GOD…
… but you agree that Jesus Christ is ‘firstborn’ in AUTHORITY.
So you have a dilemma.
The trinitarian translators chose the SIMILAR words because it aided their fallacy cause but anyone with intelligence and wisdom can easily see that they are TWO entirely different MEANINGS!!! Are you wise, do you have the intelligence to see that? Great, if you do!!!
Brian2, ‘Jesus and the Father are one IN AGREEMENT’.
The Son believes in what the Father taught him… and the Father approves of what the Son is doing.
Brian2, what does this verse say to you?? What do you understand from it:
- ‘On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.’ (John 14:20)
- ‘Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.’ (John 17:21)
Best answer - say nothing!!! But that tells the whole story!!!No I don't.
No Brian2, I’m talking about YOU!! I asked if YOU were intelligent and wise enough to see that:Are you saying that the Bible is wrong and that you know what it should have said?
So, Brian2, you are saying that if Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Jesus then that means that Jesus is the father…From: John 10:30 Commentaries: "I and the Father are one."
30. I and my Father are one] ‘One’ is neuter in the Greek; not one. Person, but one Substance. There is no ‘My’ in the Greek; I and the Father are one. Christ has just implied that His hand and the Father’s hand are one, which implies that He and the Father are one; and this He now asserts. They are one in power, in will, and in action: this at the very least the words roust mean; the Arian interpretation of mere moral agreement is inadequate. Whether or no Unity of Essence is actually stated here, it is certainly implied, as the Jews see. They would stone Him for making Himself God, which they would not have done had He not asserted or implied that He and the Father were one in Substance, not merely in will. And Christ does not correct them, as assuredly He would have done, had their animosity arisen out of a gross misapprehension of His words. Comp. Revelation 20:6; Revelation 22:3.
That Jesus disciples can be one with each other in Christ just as the Son and Father are one.
and:
- ‘Firstborn’ (The most beloved of the Father)
are two entirely different things.
- ‘First [to be] Born’ (Chronological birth order)
Please stop injecting JW into debates between you and I. I am not interested in what JW think or dictate in this thread. All you are doing is attempting a distraction since you cannot defend your fallacy ideology.I think that in Hebrew it is the same word which can mean both. I think this applies to the Greek also.
So in that case there is no blame on the translators.
If it was not like this then the JWs could not say that "firstborn" has only one meaning and you and I say that there is more than one meaning.
Please stop injecting JW into debates between you and I. I am not interested in what JW think or dictate in this thread. All you are doing is attempting a distraction since you cannot defend your fallacy ideology.
‘The FIRST BORN’ is also the ‘FIRSTBORN’ to the Father. Why not! He is the only Son so, of course, the first son from the womb is also ‘His greatest love(d Son).
But as the Father has more Sons, he may (and scripturally) finds a deep sinful act perpetrated by the first Son. The Father thence sets aside this first Son (in terms of his love) to set another as his first and greatest love:
How many examples from scriptures can you point out that exemplify this saying?
- ‘He sets aside the first [Son] in order to establish a second [Son]’ (Hebrew 10:9)
Start with Adam… the ‘first Born’ of mankind!!
Who is Adam’s Second?
Why is Jesus Christ called, ‘The Second Adam’ and ‘The Last Adam’?
If Jesus created the world and IS GOD then why IS GOD granting Jesus the rulership over creation?
Kenny, …….. desperation has a strangle hold on you!!!Because God gave dominion (rulership) to man.
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Psalm 115:16
The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to thechildren of men.
Man gave the dominion to satan when he sinned making satan the god of this world
Matt 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
God became man to legally get the authority back as man - giving it back to man as in the beginning...
Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Ultimately, in the end of time, God rules legally (as per His dictates for God is not a liar) - as both God and man.
I have issues with the Southern Baptist view that distinct person s does not mean three different ways of viewing God. They are flirting with a three God scenario.I’ve decided that it’s time for some lessons about the Trinity. It isn’t as simple as I thought it was. What I mean by “Trinitarian churches” is churches that say they believe in The Trinity, more or less what people call “mainstream churches.” I’ll start with Methodist churches as an example.
- God (www.umc.org)
One key word here is “distinct.”
(later)
More examples. The bolding in all of these is mine.
Another example, from the Catholic Answers Encyclopedia
Southern Baptist:
Evangelical Lutheran:
Presbyterian:
Episcopal:
They all say that God is three distinct persons. Some examples of how they explain that are in post #18.
I believe it is incorrect. The Southern Baptist view of distinction is better.Can you say what you think of this:
- God is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’
- Jesus is God
- Jesus is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’
- God is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’
- The Father is God
- The Father is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’
- God is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’
- The Holy Spirit is God
- The Holy Spirit is ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’
I do not hold to the apostle's creed. I do believe the Nicene creed is the closest to the truth. The apostles creed seems to be confusing the Holy Spirit with the Paraclete. Probably not intentionally but because Holy Spirit is used for the Paraclete so often.The Apostles' Creed does not indicate nor mention the idea of "God as a Trinity --- three persons in one: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God who is one, is revealed in three distinct persons."
THE APOSTLES'S CREED: I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried; he descended into hell; on the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic (universal) church, the communion of the saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.
It was the other creeds that introduced the idea of the Trinity, the idea of Jesus' preexistence, the idea of the incarnation, and the idea of Jesus being coequal in all ways with Almighty God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Creative writing...Kenny, …….. desperation has a strangle hold on you!!!
Man, in the beginning, is granted dominion over the animals, fish, birds, and all creeping things…. Thing with life in them.
Satan is a STEWARD (I’m beginning to believe that no one knows what a STEWARD is?) - a STEWARDING ANGEL over the CREATED WORLD…. The created world includes all living things AND ALL NONE LIVING THINGS… animate and inanimate things. A STEWARD sits IN PLACE of the rightful owner WHILE the rightful owner is NOT IN PLACE… If a King is too young to rule (perhaps the previous king died while his son was underage) then A STEWARD is put in place, RULING in place ‘as though King’ until the youngster is of an age to rule:
When Jesus proved himself as Son of God, GOD handed over the rulership to him as is written:
- ‘Though he is a prince, while he is young he is treated no different to a servant’
This must be taken as a certainty of a future event as Jesus had not yet died, been resurrected, taken up to Heaven, and sat down at the right hand of majesty. THEN when Jesus IS seated at the right hand of God, God Put all power and authority in Jesus’ hands for him to ‘rule until all things are put under his feet…’.
- “All power and authority has been given to me …”
And when all things are put under Jesus’ feet (he has conquered all sin, and Satan, and Death, Jesus HANDS BACK the power and authority TO GOD, who gave it to him in the first place. All power and authority DOES NOT INCLUDE power and authority over GOD: Jesus never rules ON the throne of God: ‘EXCEPT for my throne, you are to be Pharoah’…
Satan is a Stewarding Angel over creation which is why he says that he can hand the created world to Jesus IF Jesus worshipped him. Of course Satan lied - that’s not in doubt - but what he lied about was not that ‘It is mine…’ but that he could give it to ‘WHOM HE WILL’. Jesus did not query him since both knew that Satan had to eventually hand the kingdom over to WHOM EVER PROVED TO BE THE FIRSTBORN (Most loved by the Father). Satan tried to say that Jesus did not have to prove himself as that most beloved and acquire the rulership from him IF Jesus bowed down and worshipped him… and avoid the painful suffering, the humiliation, the embarassment of being spat upon, hung from a tree (‘Cursed is he who is hung from a tree!’ A Jews worst nightmare!!) and finally, DEATH!!!!
Jesus defended himself by appealing to the Scriptures: ‘Worship the Father alone - and to him only give sacred service!!’.
And NO ONE in scriptures EVER baptised in the manner claimed by the trinitarian ideology: All baptisms, in fact, even prays, are said ONLY IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
If you can point to a verse where prays of baptism or anything else is carried out ‘In the name of the Father, the Son, and the spirit of God’ then please show me… or else admit that it is a false verse!!! Can you do that?
Not ‘creative’… just truthful!Creative writing...
What exactly do you find wrong with the claim:I believe it is incorrect. The Southern Baptist view of distinction is better.
Kenny, …….. desperation has a strangle hold on you!!!
Man, in the beginning, is granted dominion over the animals, fish, birds, and all creeping things…. Thing with life in them.
Satan is a STEWARD (I’m beginning to believe that no one knows what a STEWARD is?) - a STEWARDING ANGEL over the CREATED WORLD…. The created world includes all living things AND ALL NONE LIVING THINGS… animate and inanimate things. A STEWARD sits IN PLACE of the rightful owner WHILE the rightful owner is NOT IN PLACE… If a King is too young to rule (perhaps the previous king died while his son was underage) then A STEWARD is put in place, RULING in place ‘as though King’ until the youngster is of an age to rule:
When Jesus proved himself as Son of God, GOD handed over the rulership to him as is written:
- ‘Though he is a prince, while he is young he is treated no different to a servant’
This must be taken as a certainty of a future event as Jesus had not yet died, been resurrected, taken up to Heaven, and sat down at the right hand of majesty. THEN when Jesus IS seated at the right hand of God, God Put all power and authority in Jesus’ hands for him to ‘rule until all things are put under his feet…’.
- “All power and authority has been given to me …”
And when all things are put under Jesus’ feet (he has conquered all sin, and Satan, and Death, Jesus HANDS BACK the power and authority TO GOD, who gave it to him in the first place. All power and authority DOES NOT INCLUDE power and authority over GOD: Jesus never rules ON the throne of God: ‘EXCEPT for my throne, you are to be Pharoah’…
Satan is a Stewarding Angel over creation which is why he says that he can hand the created world to Jesus IF Jesus worshipped him. Of course Satan lied - that’s not in doubt - but what he lied about was not that ‘It is mine…’ but that he could give it to ‘WHOM HE WILL’. Jesus did not query him since both knew that Satan had to eventually hand the kingdom over to WHOM EVER PROVED TO BE THE FIRSTBORN (Most loved by the Father). Satan tried to say that Jesus did not have to prove himself as that most beloved and acquire the rulership from him IF Jesus bowed down and worshipped him… and avoid the painful suffering, the humiliation, the embarassment of being spat upon, hung from a tree (‘Cursed is he who is hung from a tree!’ A Jews worst nightmare!!) and finally, DEATH!!!!
Jesus defended himself by appealing to the Scriptures: ‘Worship the Father alone - and to him only give sacred service!!’.
And NO ONE in scriptures EVER baptised in the manner claimed by the trinitarian ideology: All baptisms, in fact, even prays, are said ONLY IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
If you can point to a verse where prays of baptism or anything else is carried out ‘In the name of the Father, the Son, and the spirit of God’ then please show me… or else admit that it is a false verse!!! Can you do that?
What are you talking about, Brian2?
What are you talking about, Brian2?
Can you show me a verse anywhere in scriptures where anyone baptised in the manner you claim (‘In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit’).
But, they did baptise in he name of Jesus Christ.
So, Brian2, does that mean that:
and the name of the Son is:
- ‘The name of the Father’ and ‘The name of the holy Spirit’ is ‘The name of the Son’…
Here’s what really happened:
- “Jesus Christ”?
Brian2, I’ve shown you where a prominent apostles of Jesus baptised in the name of Jesus, only, so please show me your proof that baptism is in the name of ‘The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit’.
- “So he [Peter] ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.” (Acts 10:48)
- ‘Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”’ (Acts 2:38)
And lastly, Jesus DID PROVE HIMSELF to be the most beloved of the Father:
Brian2, do you actually know anything worthy about the true scriptures you claim to be debating about? Or are you debating for a fallacy scripture - a different scripture than that of the common Bible scriptures?
- “The Father loves the Son and has placed all things into his hands” (John 3:35)
- “For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that He is doing.” (John 5:20)
- “The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life” (John 10:17)
- “Behold my Servant*, my chosen one in whom I am well pleased - I will put MY SPIRIT on him and he will fulfi all my desires’ (Isaiah 42:1) *In Hebrew, the best, most trusted, most obedient, most loved, servant is akin to ‘a Son’