ellenjanuary
Well-Known Member
I was there!
Which is to say, I'm half in love with the theory before forwarding the hypothesis. It just makes too much sense, from here; yet because of how it was derived - a vision - alla these words? Can be entirely wrong without necessarily disrupting the integrity of the underlying "source code." How does that make sense? I don't know. You may have to be insane, to understand.
I see Saul of Tarsus, as a prophet; at a time when his people felt "prophecy" to be a dying art. And on the road to Damascus, he did have a vision... but I consider that his vision came from god.
And there was an interim period; where he struggled with what he knew, the traditions of his people, the future of his kind, and a changing world far different from what came before...
I believe he was given bad information; but he went with with what he knew, and took a desperate gamble that he felt insured the destiny of his culture.
And his contemporaries... could not condone the gall of a man, who would usurp the role of god...
But I believe Paul saw something, that he could not quite fully realize, that he was to be like Moses. To see where he must go, yet never to see where he would arrive.
Thus using both the wisdom of his people, and the wisdom of the world; he forged a bridge... His people were so focused on god, days were spent reconsidering ancient law; a god so bright that they could not see the world. The people of the world, were worldly; able to adapt to changing times. And yet among many, a similar tale was told, of worldly woe, and redemption, from a god made flesh...
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Who was Paul, to establish the Law? To declare justification through faith alone, so that Gentile could know of God's sufficient grace? Fearing the passing of the grace of prophecy from his people, fearing his culture doomed to sink in the shifting sands of time; he did the the unthinkable... he deified, himself.
He knew what it meant, to accept the Holy Spirit; it was that of god which enabled the prophet to have visions from god. It was a sliver of the eternal in the temporal, but even moreso; he knew how it acted among those to whom he preached. That beyond mere words, an ineffable something carried from him; became invested in his followers, became faith.
He sought to preserve his culture by spreading his culture among the Gentiles. He used a purified vision of himself, wrapped within a legacy of Gentile religious tradition; but containing the essence of the Holy Spirit. Trusting not only to enhance the power of his presentation, but trusting in that which he could not quite see: that preserving the Holy Spirit, was preserving god.
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God
And it all just fell into place. A bridge across religious perception, across time, across cultures; the Son of God, through which is granted eternal life. Through which one is born again, as a prophet, purified through the Holy Spirit, worthy of communion with god. The potent symbolism of birth, death, and resurrection; providing a baseline for living as one must amongst sin, yet allowing one the magnificence of god, through a ritual of purification: Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
To be spiritually minded, is life and peace. If I do not accept an historical Jesus Christ; it is merely because I accept the magnificence and sweep of Paul's vision.
~quotations from Romans, KJV.
Which is to say, I'm half in love with the theory before forwarding the hypothesis. It just makes too much sense, from here; yet because of how it was derived - a vision - alla these words? Can be entirely wrong without necessarily disrupting the integrity of the underlying "source code." How does that make sense? I don't know. You may have to be insane, to understand.
I see Saul of Tarsus, as a prophet; at a time when his people felt "prophecy" to be a dying art. And on the road to Damascus, he did have a vision... but I consider that his vision came from god.
And there was an interim period; where he struggled with what he knew, the traditions of his people, the future of his kind, and a changing world far different from what came before...
I believe he was given bad information; but he went with with what he knew, and took a desperate gamble that he felt insured the destiny of his culture.
And his contemporaries... could not condone the gall of a man, who would usurp the role of god...
But I believe Paul saw something, that he could not quite fully realize, that he was to be like Moses. To see where he must go, yet never to see where he would arrive.
Thus using both the wisdom of his people, and the wisdom of the world; he forged a bridge... His people were so focused on god, days were spent reconsidering ancient law; a god so bright that they could not see the world. The people of the world, were worldly; able to adapt to changing times. And yet among many, a similar tale was told, of worldly woe, and redemption, from a god made flesh...
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Who was Paul, to establish the Law? To declare justification through faith alone, so that Gentile could know of God's sufficient grace? Fearing the passing of the grace of prophecy from his people, fearing his culture doomed to sink in the shifting sands of time; he did the the unthinkable... he deified, himself.
He knew what it meant, to accept the Holy Spirit; it was that of god which enabled the prophet to have visions from god. It was a sliver of the eternal in the temporal, but even moreso; he knew how it acted among those to whom he preached. That beyond mere words, an ineffable something carried from him; became invested in his followers, became faith.
He sought to preserve his culture by spreading his culture among the Gentiles. He used a purified vision of himself, wrapped within a legacy of Gentile religious tradition; but containing the essence of the Holy Spirit. Trusting not only to enhance the power of his presentation, but trusting in that which he could not quite see: that preserving the Holy Spirit, was preserving god.
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God
And it all just fell into place. A bridge across religious perception, across time, across cultures; the Son of God, through which is granted eternal life. Through which one is born again, as a prophet, purified through the Holy Spirit, worthy of communion with god. The potent symbolism of birth, death, and resurrection; providing a baseline for living as one must amongst sin, yet allowing one the magnificence of god, through a ritual of purification: Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
To be spiritually minded, is life and peace. If I do not accept an historical Jesus Christ; it is merely because I accept the magnificence and sweep of Paul's vision.
~quotations from Romans, KJV.
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