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Featured What Is Protestantism?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rival, May 2, 2021.

  1. Jacques de Molay

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    Lutherans and/or Methodists these days are HARDLY "dogmatic."
     
  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist You are safe

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    Lutherans aren't?
     
  3. Jacques de Molay

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    Not really.

    Besides...WHICH "Lutherans"? They aren't all the same.
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist You are safe

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    Interesting. In the states or in general?
     
  5. Jacques de Molay

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    And that's JUST "Lutherans"!

    There are approximately 35,000 different Christian denominations in the USA, alone. And many of them believe highly disparate things. Some of them claim exclusivity, others don't. Some don't even believe in the Divine (which is an entire other discussion).
     
  6. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    There are five "solas" (only's) that are the tenets of Protestantism.

    Sola Scriptura (Bible alone, as opposed to Bible and Church)
    Sola Fide (Faith alone, as opposed to faith plus works)
    Sola Gratia (Grace alone)
    Sola Christus (Christ alone)
    Sola Deo Gloria (To God alone be the glory)

    To the best of my understanding, the Catholic church agree on the last three, so that it is only the first two that have been points of contention.

    In recent years, there have been dialogue between the Catholic church and the Lutheran churches over faith alone, and the consensus is that the divide has been largely one of misunderstanding over the word justification. When Lutherans say justification, they are speaking of initial justification, that moment when a person first becomes a Chrisitan, whereas Catholics are almost always speaking of ongoing justification, that grace that helps them continue to live their lives as Christians. Both sides agreed that Initial Justification was faith alone, and that Ongoing Justification involved works as well as faith.

    So the only sola that is left is Sola Scriptura, or Bible Alone. It is an issue of who or what is the authority for doctrine.

    The Catholic church points out that in the early church there was no New Testament. Christians depended on the authority of the bishops to determine doctrine. The bishops got their authority via the laying on of hands in an unbroken chain going back to the apostles. This laying on of hands indicated that they were appropriately taught and could be trusted to teach rightly. This unbroken chain continues to today. Part of accepting this authority is accepting the New Testament, which the bishops canonized -- Chrisitans would not have the New Testament if it were not for the authority of the bishops.

    Protestants utterly reject this authority. For them, decisions in doctrine can be based only in the scripture. When a question arises such as whether or not an infant should be baptised, they will not go to early church fathers, but only to the authorized New Testament canon. Now of course its not like Catholics will not also go to the New Testament -- they simply interpret it differently. But a Catholic will consider both the New Testament and the church fathers contributing to what they call the deposit of faith. Protestants are like, YUCK!

    Evangelicals are even more extreme about the Bible, seeing it as the answer to all, or perhaps most of life's questions. You can perhaps sum up Evangelicalism as:
    B-I-B-L-E Yes that's the book for me. I stand alone on the word of God. the B-I-B-L-E

    So there you have it. The big difference between Catholics and Protestants boils down to what is the authority. All the other difference such as Marian doctrines, Purgatory, etc., can be chocked up to that.
     
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  7. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    This I get, but I mean,

    A) Can we define Protestantism independently of Catholicism?

    B) Is there such thing as a heretic in Protestant thinking?

    C) Is there anything all Protestant agree on that has nothing to do with 'Rome'?

    IOW is 'Protestantism' an accurate descriptor of anything these days?
     
  8. Jacques de Molay

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    The Catholic church points out that in the early church there was no New Testament. Christians depended on the authority of the bishops to determine doctrine.

    The first point is one that Catholics purposefully use to muddy the waters. True, the codified volumes of the "New Testament" did not exist at that point in history, but that's irrelevant, because ALL of the books/scrolls/letters that eventually formed the New testament most certainly did exist, and were well known to Catholic hierarchy.

    The second point is a HUGE problem. We don't need Bishops with agenda to tell us what the scriptures say...Especially when those Bishops belong to a "church" that is a quasi-political organization that directs entire Kingdoms and states under the guise of "Faith."

    The bishops got their authority via the laying on of hands in an unbroken chain going back to the apostles.

    False. Peter was NEVER a "Pope." This piece of Catholic dogma is based on an utter (and purposeful) misinterpretation of scripture. Jesus NEVER appointed Peter as a Pope.

    Chrisitans would not have the New Testament if it were not for the authority of the bishops.

    Again...Totally false. The books/letters/scrolls existed well before the volumes were codified. So...What were they using BEFORE the volumes were compiled???

    For them, decisions in doctrine can be based only in the scripture.

    Yes. That's called "logic." If you believe that scripture IS the inerrant Word of God...Why would you NOT follow His teachings???

    As fallible men, the "church fathers" cannot logically equate their customs and traditions with scripture, especially if they contradict one another (which is often the case with Catholic teachings).

    Evangelicals are even more extreme about the Bible, seeing it as the answer to all, or perhaps most of life's questions.

    When a supposed Christian calls following the Bible "extreme," it's time to hide Grandma and the kids...

    If you're NOT following the Bible, you are NOT a Christian.

    The big difference between Catholics and Protestants boils down to what is the authority.

    Very true! Christians follow God's Word. Catholics simply don't. They prefer earthly "Popes."
     
  9. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    It really isn’t anymore.
     
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  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    It just meant they were protesting against the dominance of Papal authority and doctrine.

    It's really nothing now.

    I don't call myself protestant. I don't care. The Catholic church is not something I think of opposing myself to very much. Although I am opposed. It's just not something I think about.

    However the time is when we should stand against the papacy.
     
  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it originally meant to reform the RCC but the RCC refused to be reformed. It has devolved into being free to interpret scripture without the sanction of the RCC.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe SBC might be somewhat dogmatic but other Baptists less so. I attend an SBC church and the dogma has been presented as the belief of the denomination and not a requirement for what a Christian should believe.
     
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