What is Evil?

[michel]

Can people be inherently evil, Feathers? Or is it that only their actions can be good or evil?

I know this was addressed to Feathers, but I think that people who have been abused often become abusers...abuse is evil; but I don't think anyone can be inherently evil. We all have the capacity to be either good or evil - it's our choice, except in the abuse example-but those people can change, once they see what they have become.

 

[Sunstone]

Even abusers do good things from time to time. Actually, it's part of their pattern of abuse that they do good things from time to time.

 

[jewscout]

Even abusers do good things from time to time. Actually, it's part of their pattern of abuse that they do good things from time to time.

but does that make the abuse any more or less evil simply because they do good things from time to time?

if someone helps in his community and donates large sums of money to things like hospitals and then comes home and beats his wife and children do we say..."well it's not so bad, i mean he does help out around the community."?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Can people be inherently evil, Feathers? Or is it that only their actions can be good or evil?

Arrrrghhhh.. I had a nice, long answer written out, and then the computer I was on decided to eat it.

Short version is that, though it may be faulty logic, I believe that most people can only be inherently good. They may commit evil actions, but the good works in the world come from them allowing their inner beauty to manifest itself. (Faulty logic being that I don't think something can be inherently evil, but, as all seasoned debators must say a few times in their lifetimes... I don't care if it doesn't make sense, neener, neener!)

 

[cmotdibbler]

So someone who commits a single evil act (child molestation) but otherwise is a kind and upstanding citizen would be what? So like Sunstone said, maybe only one's actions can be labelled "good" or "evil".

 

[Sunstone]

but does that make the abuse any more or less evil simply because they do good things from time to time?

if someone helps in his community and donates large sums of money to things like hospitals and then comes home and beats his wife and children do we say..."well it's not so bad, i mean he does help out around the community."?

Of course the good that abusers do does not excuse them from their abuse! Abuse is abuse, and reprehensible no matter how many charities the abuser donates to, and no matter how many "make up" gifts he gives the spouse and kids.

Incidently, it's often because of the fact that the abuser does good from time to time that he or she can be in denial that they are an abuser.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

And sometimes, especially with mental abuse, even the good that they do is part of their abuse. A child can do something and be praised for it warmly by the abusive parent, and then do the same thing again and get spanked or berated.

I realize that's more on the topic of 'abuse' than evil, but just wanted to add a few more cents to the discussion.

 

[Sunstone]

So someone who commits a single evil act (child molestation) but otherwise is a kind and upstanding citizen would be what? So like Sunstone said, maybe only one's actions can be labelled "good" or "evil".

It's because the same person can do both good and evil that I find it very difficult to label a person good or evil. After all, even Hitler built a very good road system for Germany.

 

[jewscout]

So someone who commits a single evil act (child molestation) but otherwise is a kind and upstanding citizen would be what?

a hypocrite IMO:tsk:

 

[Jaymes]

"I had a professor who once defined Good as "the affirmation of life" and Evil as "the denial of life." What do you think of those definitions?"

I kept thinking about that phrase. Wouldn't what affirms life and what denies life burn down to point of view? By eating, you are killing something. It denies life, so it must be evil. But by eating, you are affirming your life, so it must be good..?

 

[jewscout]

It's because the same person can do both good and evil that I find it very difficult to label a person good or evil. After all, even Hitler built a very good road system for Germany.

this is where i think we differ Sunstone. while many people are in shades of grey, people like Adolf Hitler are, IMO, evil. It goes back to my belief that doing a few good deeds does not make up for evil acts, especially on the scale Hitler committed them...
a road system IMPO does not make up for genocide, mass murder, and one of the most devistating wars in human history..

 

[cmotdibbler]

Agreed, Hitler, Stalin and Jeffrey Dahlmer all had their fans. They must have found something to love there. So to me, it really all comes down to the point of view of ones actions.

 

[Sunstone]

"I had a professor who once defined Good as "the affirmation of life" and Evil as "the denial of life." What do you think of those definitions?"

I kept thinking about that phrase. Wouldn't what affirms life and what denies life burn down to point of view? By eating, you are killing something. It denies life, so it must be evil. But by eating, you are affirming your life, so it must be good..?

Maybe good and evil are beyond human comprehension. What do you think?

 

[jewscout]

Agreed, Hitler, Stalin and Jeffrey Dahlmer all had their fans. They must have found something to love there. So to me, it really all comes down to the point of view of ones actions.

Hitler - yeah i suppose if A) you blame someone else for WW2 B)Deny the Holocaust and C) think facism and a police state are a good idea:sarcastic
Stalin - even Lenin said not to let this nut in power? Again i guess he was good if you like A) Totalitarianism B) being arrested and executed or sent to a gulag cause Uncle Joe is having one of his "bad days"
Jeffery Dahlmer - wow:areyoucra

 

[jewscout]

Maybe good and evil are beyond human comprehension. What do you think?

no i think they are well within the framework of you human comprehension...IMO i think it's a matter of saying that though there is alot of grey out there that we shouldn't be afraid to say that something is Evil when it is pretty blatently Evil or wrong

but that's just my personal opinion i could be wrong...

 

[Sunstone]

this is where i think we differ Sunstone. while many people are in shades of grey, people like Adolf Hitler are, IMO, evil. It goes back to my belief that doing a few good deeds does not make up for evil acts, especially on the scale Hitler committed them...
a road system IMPO does not make up for genocide, mass murder, and one of the most devistating wars in human history..

As horrendous as Hitler's actions were, Jewscout, I still think that "Hitler was evil" is shorthand for "Hitler's actions were evil". To say that Hitler himself was evil seems to me the same as saying that none of his actions could be good, which is not the case.

 

[jewscout]

As horrendous as Hitler's actions were, Jewscout, I still think that "Hitler was evil" is shorthand for "Hitler's actions were evil". To say that Hitler himself was evil seems to me the same as saying that none of his actions could be good, which is not the case.

so then was Mother Teresa not a good person?

 

[Sunstone]

so then was Mother Teresa not a good person?

I'd say that calling Mother Teresa a good person is shorthand for "She did a lot of good things." But in herself was she good? I think that, like anyone else, the terms good and evil do not apply to people, but to actions.

 

[Jaymes]

"Maybe good and evil are beyond human comprehension. What do you think?"

I don't think it's really beyond comprehension... maybe the good or evil of some acts is beyond human comprehension.

 

[Sunstone]

"Maybe good and evil are beyond human comprehension. What do you think?"

I don't think it's really beyond comprehension... maybe the good or evil of some acts is beyond human comprehension.

Or perhaps the good or evil of any act is to some extent beyond human comprehension. After all, it is impossible for us to know all the consequences of any action. And some of those unknown consequences could be good or could be evil.