What is a Temple Recommend?

[Snowbear]

Snowbear, it didn't even occur to me to think you were on the attack. I'm not sure what I could possibly have said to make you think that.

Could have been this statement made after Soy replied to my query ....

Since I have a strong hunch that somebody's going to call you on this, I'm going to jump in before they do....

OK - so once a person confesses a "serious sin," how does the person then earn worthiness (notice in this context I've been using the word worthiness, not perfection )? Is the confession and a promise to never do it again enough to earn that worthiness if the men in charge discern that the person is actually sincere?

BTW - who decides which sins are "serious" and which are not, since in God's eyes ALL sins are serious?

 

[Katzpur]

OK - so once a person confesses a "serious sin," how does the person then earn worthiness? Is the confession and a promise to never do it again enough to earn that worthiness if the men in charge discern that the person is actually sincere?

Well, fortunately I've never found myself in the position of having to earn my worthiness after having committed a sin of this type, so I'm not 100% sure of the process. It would probably be different in each case. Generally speaking, it would be accurate to say that the person (let's use your example of someone who was having sex outside of marriage) would be required to meet with the bishop on a regular basis. The purpose of such meetings would be for the bishop to counsel and encourage the person who was trying to make a difficult life change. Let's say an LDS girl wanted to marry her fiance in the temple, but they had been sexually active. (Most LDS girls in this situation probably wouldn't even bother asking for a temple recommend, but since this is a hypothetical situation, we'll assume she does.) If she were to confess that she had been sleeping with her boyfriend, but was sorry and promised not to do so again, it is highly unlikely (I'd say next to impossible) that her bishop would say, "Oh, okay. That's good to know. Here's your recommend." She would have to demonstrate to him, over a period of perhaps a year, that she really was repentent. After a period of time had passed, her bishop would likely notice a change in her, in the way she felt about herself and in her spiritual maturity in general. Once the Spirit testified to him that she really had recognized the seriousness of her transgression and really had changed her behavior, he would issue her a temple recommend.

BTW - who decides which sins are "serious" and which are not, since in God's eyes ALL sins are serious?

Yes, all sins are serious in God's eyes, but if all sins had to be confessed to one's bishop, he wouldn't have time to do anything but listen to people confess. In many situations, a person can feel remorse for what he has done, try to make compensation for the damage he has done, including asking forgiveness of the person he has wronged, and ask God to help him change his behavior in the future. "Serious" sins would be moral transgressions (fornication and adultery), spouse or child abuse, any kind of criminal activity, or participating in activities intended to undermine the Church or its leaders. The "General Authorities" of the Church (the "First Presidency" and the twelve Apostles) would decide which sins qualify as being serious enough that they need to be confessed to one's bishop.

 

[Snowbear]

Well, fortunately I've never found myself in the position of having to earn my worthiness after having committed a sin of this type, so I'm not 100% sure of the process. It would probably be different in each case. Generally speaking, it would be accurate to say that the person (let's use your example of someone who was having sex outside of marriage) would be required to meet with the bishop on a regular basis. The purpose of such meetings would be for the bishop to counsel and encourage the person who was trying to make a difficult life change. Let's say an LDS girl wanted to marry her fiance in the temple, but they had been sexually active. (Most LDS girls in this situation probably wouldn't even bother asking for a temple recommend, but since this is a hypothetical situation, we'll assume she does.) If she were to confess that she had been sleeping with her boyfriend, but was sorry and promised not to do so again, it is highly unlikely (I'd say next to impossible) that her bishop would say, "Oh, okay. That's good to know. Here's your recommend." She would have to demonstrate to him, over a period of perhaps a year, that she really was repentent. After a period of time had passed, her bishop would likely notice a change in her, in the way she felt about herself and in her spiritual maturity in general. Once the Spirit testified to him that she really had recognized the seriousness of her transgression and really had changed her behavior, he would issue her a temple recommend.

Only the girl?? Wouldn't both 1/2's of the couple need to go through this to get the recommend so they could eventually marry in the temple?

Anyhow, as someone agreed earlier in this thread - Forgiveness from God is between God and the person asking for forgiveness. I guess I'm trying to understand why this is not good enough in the eyes of the church? If a person is forgiven (washed clean) of their sin by God, the person is most certainly deemed worthy by God.... even though He knows that no matter how hard the person tries, s/he will screw up again (though it may be a different sin next time). From your original statements and subsequent explanations, I'm gathering that a person's worthiness to enter the temple is determined more by men than by God??

No, I'm not trying to be difficult... I'm just trying to learn.

 

[niceguy]

Only the girl?? Wouldn't both 1/2's of the couple need to go through this to get the recommend so they could eventually marry in the temple?

I belive that Katzpurwas just giving an example, my guess is that the boy would need to have his own meeting with the bishop.

In any case I have never before heard about thease "recommends" and I have some relatives that are members! I have also at occations visited LDS temples after being invited so there seem to be some exception for guests. More, three years ago, my older sisters oldest daughter married the son of a LDS bishop and there I was, inside the temple at the wedding party (the actual cermony was held outdoors). I was also invited to take part in the sermon the next day (sunday) after spending the night as guest in the bishops home. I was forced to decline since I had to catch a train but would have been there if I had been able to.

 

[SoyLeche]

I belive that Katzpurwas just giving an example, my guess is that the boy would need to have his own meeting with the bishop.

In any case I have never before heard about thease "recommends" and I have some relatives that are members! I have also at occations visited LDS temples after being invited so there seem to be some exception for guests. More, three years ago, my older sisters oldest daughter married the son of a LDS bishop and there I was, inside the temple at the wedding party (the actual cermony was held outdoors). I was also invited to take part in the sermon the next day (sunday) after spending the night as guest in the bishops home. I was forced to decline since I had to catch a train but would have been there if I had been able to.

Yes, she was just giving an example. There is no double standard.

I don't think you were actaully at a temple. You were probably at a regular chapel. These are where the weekly meetings take place. Wedding receptions never take place in temples - only the ceremony. It looks like, for some reason or other, your neice and her fiance decided not to be married in the temple - maybe she isn't LDS but he is?

There are chapels in most communities. There are only about 130 temples in the world. If you are interested in where they are: http://www.lds.org/temples/alphabetical/0,11202,1901-1,00.html

Once a temple is dedicated only temple recomend holding members are allowed to enter. Others can come onto the grounds, and there is usually a visitors center that anyone can go to, but you need a recomend to enter the actual temple.

 

[Snowbear]

Yes, she was just giving an example. There is no double standard.

That's good to read! Thanks Soy

 

[jonny]

Thanks (and frubals) for the comprehensive answer, jonny

But I'm still wondering..... I sort of used this as an example in my first question, but now I'm wondering...

How does one get around this one... at least the premarital sex part.... in the eyes of the church? I sort of used this as an example in my first question, but now I'm wondering... say someone has premarital sex, then eventually gets married (not necessarily to the same person). How can this person "become" "morally clean?" How can the person take back the premarital sex thing in the eyes of the church?

I don't think you can ever "take back" the consequences of sin, but you can still be forgiven if you repent. In the steps to repentence I listed, I mentioned "making restitution" as being a step. I believe that part of this is dealing with the consequences of what has been done. A consequence might be losing your temple recommend for a period of time, for example.

To answer your question about "becoming" "morally clean" - this is only accomplished through the atonement of Jesus Christ. He suffered for our sins so that we could be forgiven. All that he asks is that we repent and come to him. The church has the same expectation and standard. You can't "take back" what you did, but you can have a change of heart and become clean with the help of Christ.

 

[jonny]

...The "General Authorities" of the Church (the "First Presidency" and the twelve Apostles) would decide which sins qualify as being serious enough that they need to be confessed to one's bishop.

I always believed that the Spirit would let me know if something I'd done was serious enough that I need to confess it to my bishop.

I would say that it's time to see the Bishop if you are having difficulty repenting on your own. That way he can counsel you and help you overcome your weaknesses.

 

[jonny]

Anyhow, as someone agreed earlier in this thread - Forgiveness from God is between God and the person asking for forgiveness. I guess I'm trying to understand why this is not good enough in the eyes of the church? If a person is forgiven (washed clean) of their sin by God, the person is most certainly deemed worthy by God.... even though He knows that no matter how hard the person tries, s/he will screw up again (though it may be a different sin next time). From your original statements and subsequent explanations, I'm gathering that a person's worthiness to enter the temple is determined more by men than by God??

No, I'm not trying to be difficult... I'm just trying to learn.

This article from a leader in the LDS church explains worthiness better than I ever could. It also explains the role of the church leadership in this process.

On Being Worthy
By Marvin J. Ashton

Over the past number of weeks I have had some conversations that have made me ponder the meaning of the word worthy. As I recently talked to a young twenty-year-old man, I discussed his attitude about going on a mission. He said, “I wanted to go, but I am not worthy.”

“Who made that judgment?” I asked.

“I did,” was his answer.

On another occasion I asked a young lady who was contemplating marriage if she was going to the temple. She said, “I would like to, but I am not worthy.” In response to the same question of who determined her unworthiness, she too said, “I did.”

A member mother who had known for many weeks that her daughter had planned a temple marriage was asked if she was going to attend the temple ceremony. “No. I am not worthy to get a temple recommend,” she answered.

Each of these people seemed to have made his own determination about worthiness. We do not have to be hindered by self-judgment. All of us have the benefit and added wisdom of a bishop and a stake president to help us determine our worthiness and, if necessary, to assist us to begin the process of becoming worthy to accomplish whatever goal we wish to achieve. When we take it upon ourselves to pass self-judgment and simply declare, “I am not worthy,” we build a barrier to progress and erect blockades that prevent our moving forward. We are not being fair when we judge ourselves. A second and third opinion will always be helpful and proper.

It occurs to me that there are probably hundreds or even thousands who do not understand what worthiness is. Worthiness is a process, and perfection is an eternal trek. We can be worthy to enjoy certain privileges without being perfect.


Continued...

 

[Katzpur]

I always believed that the Spirit would let me know if something I'd done was serious enough that I need to confess it to my bishop.

I would say that it's time to see the Bishop if you are having difficulty repenting on your own. That way he can counsel you and help you overcome your weaknesses.

I think you're right, although if you were to go in for a recommend and were asked if you were morally clean, it is my understanding that you would be expected to confess to your prior trangressions even though you felt in your own heart that you had repented. Your dad was a bishop, jonny; why don't you ask him and see what he has to say.

 

[Katzpur]

Only the girl?? Wouldn't both 1/2's of the couple need to go through this to get the recommend so they could eventually marry in the temple?

Well, as SoyLeche has explained, yes, both would need to speak to their respective bishops. Sorry, my answer obviously left that point unclear.

Anyhow, as someone agreed earlier in this thread - Forgiveness from God is between God and the person asking for forgiveness. I guess I'm trying to understand why this is not good enough in the eyes of the church? If a person is forgiven (washed clean) of their sin by God, the person is most certainly deemed worthy by God.... even though He knows that no matter how hard the person tries, s/he will screw up again (though it may be a different sin next time). From your original statements and subsequent explanations, I'm gathering that a person's worthiness to enter the temple is determined more by men than by God??

I'd say that forgiveness is granted by God, but that worthiness to enter the temple is determined by His chosen servants. Here, from the book, "A Convert's Guide to Mormon Life" is a paragraph that kind of explains our belief:

"Just as King Solomon was often called upon to make judgments concerning his people, the bishop is called to be the common judge over the members of your ward. He will decide issues such as worthiness and the completeness of repentance. He will decide if and when official Church discipline is necessary, including the severity of that discipline. Lest you worry that the bishop will abuse this power, most bishops in our [the authors'] acquaintance report that this is the most difficult task of being a bishop, and the one that inspires the most prayers for heavenly guidance. Bishops realize the effect of their actions on the lives of ward members and try hard to discern the Lord's wishes in these areas."

 

[Snowbear]

I think you're right, although if you were to go in for a recommend and were asked if you were morally clean, it is my understanding that you would be expected to confess to your prior trangressions even though you felt in your own heart that you had repented....

Why, Katz? Seems to me that of someone has repented and knows that God has washed them clean of their sin, they can honestly, from the heart, answer in the affirmative that they are morally clean when the bishop asks that question. Why should further confession to the church and "consequences" imposed by the church be necessary?

 

[Snowbear]

This article from a leader in the LDS church explains worthiness better than I ever could. It also explains the role of the church leadership in this process.

On Being Worthy
By Marvin J. Ashton
...

Good article. Thanks for taking my question seriously

I see this in me all the time. A group of us at work have started a bible study. Last night's was about "discerning the voice of God." Part of the discussion was about the "voices" that are NOT of God... like the ones from within us or from the world that make us deem ourselves unworthy.... while in truth, as Believers in Jesus Christ, God ALWAYS finds us worthy in His eyes

 

[niceguy]

I don't think you were actaully at a temple. You were probably at a regular chapel. These are where the weekly meetings take place. Wedding receptions never take place in temples - only the ceremony. It looks like, for some reason or other, your neice and her fiance decided not to be married in the temple - maybe she isn't LDS but he is?

There are chapels in most communities. There are only about 130 temples in the world. If you are interested in where they are: http://www.lds.org/temples/alphabetical/0,11202,1901-1,00.html

Once a temple is dedicated only temple recomend holding members are allowed to enter. Others can come onto the grounds, and there is usually a visitors center that anyone can go to, but you need a recomend to enter the actual temple.

Aha, that explains it. I personally use the word "temple" in a very broad way, I should have understood that something was wrong 130 temples are way to few for a broad term. Actually my neice are a member. My sister tried out LDS for a few years but found that it didn't really fit for her but her daughter stayed on.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Hi everyone! And thanks Snowbear, for your interest and sincere desire to understand.
I believe that the entire process of aquiring a temple recommend and attending the temple is for the benefit of the individual. Well, actually I guess that's obvious. I don't currently have a temple recommend do to unworthiness. It is my sincere desire to obtain one as soon as possible. It is very hard for me to admit, but I have made some stupid mistakes. Very stupid. Even though I have changed my ways and promised to never fall back again, I have a lot of self doubt. I have talked to my bishop and we have talks regularlly. Although I pray for help and forgiveness every day, I recognize the bishop as the one called of God to help and counsel people in my exact position. My repentence is a long and sore process. My bishop is not there to tell my I am not worthy. I do that well enough on my own. It really helps me to have a someone who loves me, encouraging me and walking beside me on the path back to the light of Christ. The restrictions he gives me are to help me so that I don't hurt myself more by partaking of any ordinances unworthily, not to punish me. As the representative of Jesus Christ in our ward, he is there only to help and uplift.
Sorry, a long post but I thought it might give you another perspective on the matter.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Why, Katz? Seems to me that of someone has repented and knows that God has washed them clean of their sin, they can honestly, from the heart, answer in the affirmative that they are morally clean when the bishop asks that question. Why should further confession to the church and "consequences" imposed by the church be necessary?

If someone has trully been washed clean of their sins then the bishop will be able to tell. In that case there may be fewer and shorter "consequences" depending on what action the bishop is inspired to take. In fact, it may be nothing other than the pain of confessing. Besides, the real pain of sin is knowing that you let God down; so if things are right between you and God, who cares about anything else? That's the whole reason the bishop is there!

 

[Snowbear]

Thanks Davy and frubals for your answers

Yes, your perspective as well as your next post, DO help me understand a bit ~ let me see if I've got it.... If a person has sinned, confessed and repented of it to God and knows in his or her heart that they are forgiven and honestly know they will strive to not do it again, there is no need to involve the bishop - the person can honestly tell Mr Bishop that they are morally clean, right? On the other hand, as in the example you gave, though you have confessed and been forgiven, you know in your heart that you need help to keep from doing it again. So in this case, you confess to Mr Bishop and ask him to help and guide you in your path to healing and repentance. Did I come close?

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

Thanks Davy and frubals for your answers

Yes, your perspective as well as your next post, DO help me understand a bit ~ let me see if I've got it.... If a person has sinned, confessed and repented of it to God and knows in his or her heart that they are forgiven and honestly know they will strive to not do it again, there is no need to involve the bishop - the person can honestly tell Mr Bishop that they are morally clean, right? On the other hand, as in the example you gave, though you have confessed and been forgiven, you know in your heart that you need help to keep from doing it again. So in this case, you confess to Mr Bishop and ask him to help and guide you in your path to healing and repentance. Did I come close?

yes as far as i know, going though the process is a lot of work; at times even for the littlest of sins i'd rather do the Dishes!!! but if what i went though is 1/100000000000000000000 of what christ went though to pay the price for our sins, i am eteraly greatful with out end... there are other ways that a person go's though repentance, but for most sins this is it...

 

[DeepShadow]

If a person has sinned, confessed and repented of it to God and knows in his or her heart that they are forgiven and honestly know they will strive to not do it again, there is no need to involve the bishop - the person can honestly tell Mr Bishop that they are morally clean, right? On the other hand, as in the example you gave, though you have confessed and been forgiven, you know in your heart that you need help to keep from doing it again. So in this case, you confess to Mr Bishop and ask him to help and guide you in your path to healing and repentance. Did I come close?

Sorry for coming in late, but I think you've got a lot of it here. I'd also add that part of the reason for the bishop's guidance and other probationary steps is not to "earn forgiveness"--as you pointed out, God is ever-forgiving--but to regain spiritual "ground" that was lost due to the transgression. Just as fasting, meditation, and sacrifice add power to prayer, so probationary steps can speed spiritual healing.

 

[Snowbear]

Interesting doctrine. Thanks, Shadow.