What does everyone here think about

[Diane]

What does everyone here think about Religion and Politics?

I think that our consitution was violated and now they want to change it.
Why same sax marriages? Or Abortion?

Is this another Soddom and Gomorra?

I would like your input.

God Bless You all!
Diane

 

[Ronald]

Read Mt.13:24-30, especially 30! What are we to do? How about praying for "Thy kingdom come." "Thy will be done."

 

[Pah]

I would like to think that I have no animosity toward belief - that I strickly have the interests of society in mind. (I'm woking on that 'cause it seems to have changed a bit)

I do recognize that belief in a religion gives a person a sense of identity and I must honor whatever identity a healthy person has. My focus was/is on the person and not the belief (and hopefully my post will reflect that more and more).

That being said, I live as a citizen of the United States and greatly prize the rights and freedoms we enjoy. I do not want to change that except to insure all rights are implemented and respected. So often those rights are/were opposed by some of the religious in America. So, if one can call that a "fight", I'm in the thick of it.

I feel that, since late in the Old Testament and wholly in the New Testamant, the covemt of God is for individuals and not for nations or tribes wandering in the desert. I do not want a theological based society nor nation but I will accept and defend a nation where there are theological adherents. I do not accept that we were founded as a Christian nation but a nation of Christians who framed a godless, secular government. Since that framing, we have been a nation under Constitutional law as the ultimate national authority and the Constitution has served us well if not sometimes late to arrive at justice for some of it's citizens.

The drive for homosexual marriage is but a longing to implement a basic right of marriage - not a sacred one but one reduced to a basic common element inheritant in a human being. Acknowledgement by the Constitution does nothing to detract any sacred symbology in marriage for believers but does extend the right of marriage to all citizens. Here too, the Body of Christ in its history has been ambigious to what contrues a marriage It used to be, not so very long ago that marriage was created for "property, companionship, and then love". Today it seems to be "love, companionship and property".

Abortion, as construed and re-affirmed by the Supreme Court, recognizes the balancing of rights between a woman and her fetus. The arguement for when a human being exists is an arbitrary one from the stages of conception to viablity or sentience to even birth. The Court choose viability and, to me, is as worthy as some others (I would even consider the definition of life beginning as the Church did for a long period of time as ensoulment - which happens at "quickening" and some say the "breath of God").

I would also mention that sometimes the "sin" of Sodom is not what many think it but more of an abuse of sex or discurteousy to visiters. Each of these has the support of separate groups of scholars.

 

[Sunstone]

Diane,

Does politics distract from spirituality?

I’m old enough to remember when the word “Christian” was routinely used by nearly everyone to mean a person who held and demonstrated to an admirable degree certain moral and spiritual values of charity, honesty, decency, compassion, etc. To say that someone was a “Christian” or was a “true Christian” was the highest compliment.

Those days are gone.

That same word today means little more than a person who holds certain political beliefs (pro-life, anti-same sex marriage, etc.), perhaps goes to church, and votes Republican.

It’s no accident that “Christian” has changed meaning. About 30 years ago, some powerful men decided that there was a culture war in this country, and that Christians were on one side in that culture war. They then proceeded to promulgate their views so effectively that most people today have no hesitation believing their views to be true. But the side effect has been that the meaning of “Christian” has all but been reduced to membership in a political movement.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[Ceridwen018]

I am against abortion. I believe that is is the genuine taking of a life. I believe our judicial system has been handling this issue with very mixed standards--abortion is ok, but if you are in an accident with a pregnant mother and kill her baby, she can sue you for manslaughter.

I don't mind gay marriage though. Marriage is a pact between two people who love each other and are willing to stay committed and faithful for life. Who is to say that gays' can't share this? If people are so worried about the sanctity of marriage, they should take a look at divorce rates and at the hetero couples being married every day. In truth, the bible condemns gay marriage, but then again, Church and state are separated, and laws should be given out accordingly.

 

[Green Gaia]

What does everyone here think about Religion and Politics?

I think that our consitution was violated and now they want to change it.
Why same sax marriages? Or Abortion?

Is this another Soddom and Gomorra?

I would like your input.

God Bless You all!
Diane

Hello Diane, welcome to the forum. :hi: You will find we already have threads dealing with some of the issues you brought up here, but I will answer you questions since you so politely asked. :mrgreen:

I believe that religion and politics should be kept strictly separate. My view of same sex marriage is somewhat biased, being that I am a gay woman, so I will elaborate very little on the issue. I believe there is no non-religious reason that same sex marriage should not be allowed by the state. Individual churches and religions can define marriage however they like, but when it comes to legal civil unions, same sex unions should equal heterosexual unions.

Abortion: I believe in a woman's right to choose. Does that mean I like abortion? No, absolutely not. In fact, if a woman were to come to me asking whether she should have her baby or abort the pregnancy, I would strongly advise her to not have an abortion, but the choice is her's and I would support her no matter her choice.

I'm not sure I understand your question about Sodom and Gomorrah. Is this in reference to legalizing same sex marriages? If it is, I do not believe that S & G were destoryed (if we are taking the Biblical story as factual) because of homosexuality. I'll refer you to this website, which states the following:

The Story of Sodom - Genesis 19:1-25
Many people carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the city of Sodom because of homosexuality. A careful look however, reveals that this is unlikely.

Two angels were sent to Sodom by God, where Lot, Abraham's nephew, persuades the divine travelers to stay in his home. It is important to note that travelers depended on the kindness of strangers. Ancient hospitality codes required people to offer food, shelter and protection to people who were traveling. Without these codes travel would have been difficult, if not impossible.

After the Angels ate and were preparing for bed, all of the people of Sodom converged on Lots home, demanding that the angels come out so that the towns people might know(rape) them. In an effort to protect his guests, Lot denies the angry mob access to the angels, but offers his two virgin daughters instead. This suggests Lot knew his neighbors to be heterosexual. The townspeople refuse, and charge at Lot in an attempt to gain access to the angels. At this point the angels pull Lot back inside the house, and render the angry crowd blind so they can not find the door. The angels then warn Lot to gather his family and leave the city because it will soon be destroyed.

Much confusion over this passage has to do with the phrase to know them. The Hebrew word yadha (to know) has several different meanings throughout the Bible. In most cases it means to "have thorough knowledge of." In many cases it means "to check the credentials of", and in some cases may mean to "have sex with". In this case, however, it is clear that the townspeople wanted to harm the strangers, and because of ancient hospitaliy codes, Lot felt compelled to protect his guests. The townspeople wanted to perform an act of violence by raping the angels, a grave violation of ancient hospitality codes.

Homosexual rape was not uncommon. Kings of conquered tribes were sometimes raped by the invading army as the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation. The men in these armies were not homosexual, they were heterosexuals performing an act of violence. Never in any culture has more than a minority of the population been homosexual, and it is unlikely that all of the men in these armies or all the men of Sodom were gay.

Unfortunately, some people have focused on rape as a sexual act, rather than an act of violence, and have missed the point completely. The reason for Sodom's destruction is made clear in Ezekiel 16:48-50. According to Ezekiel, the sins of Sodom were pride, laziness, being inhospitable, neglecting the needs of the poor, greed, and idolatry (the worshipping of idols). Nothing about homosexuality is mentioned, nor is it mentioned in any other passage of Scripture which refers to the account of Sodom

.

 

[tigrers99]

Simply put, the post is asking people if they think the laws of the U.S. are going to be based on the MORALITY of the New Testament or the MORALITY of other countries, or the MORALITY of something or somewhere else.

If our laws are going to be based on anything other than the New Testament we are going to slip into the worst quagmires ever seen by historians. It is already happening with the MARRIAGE issue. Marriage is ordained of God. (Gen. 2:24) There is no older document than the book of Genesis that even describes what MARRIAGE is. The militant secular fundamentalists are determinded to try to make the general public think that MARRIAGE is just a dictionary term and nothing more. How wrong they are!

 

[LeaderNotFollower]

Diane,

If you go to the discussion section of this forum and click on 'Political Issues,' all the way at the bottom is a thread I started a long time ago called 'Religion and Politics.' I think it has 24 posts on it; perhaps you can find some answers there. I would also love to see new posts added to it.

 

[Runt]

I think until EVERYONE in a country holds the same religious opinion, religion needs to stay out of politics.

 

[anders]

tigrers 99,

A formal marriage process or contract is not mentioned in Gen. 2:24. That verse describes how two people, not necessarily even loving one another, are to be regarded as united when a man leaves his parents for his partner. The requisite seems to be that his partner is made from his bone and flesh, and as there are no such cases around today, I find the quote equally applicable to same-sex relations.