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What Day was Jesus Crucified?

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
It doesn't work. At all.

Two courts would not find one person guilty of the same crime TWICE. Further, they would only get ONE punishment.

However... The Romans were bloodthirsty so-and-sos, so if they decided to torture and then kill Jesus... That almost makes sense.

But the whole thing with trying to find a logical time stamp such that the Jews would actually have held this court, or anything else to do with this trial is never going to happen.

I understand that the gospels contain major points of faith for Christians. But knowing Torah law, what people would have been doing when (both members of the Sanhedrin and other Jews in general), and the bizarre logic (forget about time) conflicts... I can't see that the gospels, particularly when discussing the trial, crucifixion, and whatever else that goes with it, are anything more than really bad fan fiction.
Not just that, the court reacted a unanimous decision. Again, twice. Then took him to Pilate and said we can't execute him.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
To my understanding, Christ was crucified after the Passover, but before the first Day of Unleavened Bread.
All the gospels report him crucified after the Passover meal on Nissan 15, Friday.

For reconciliation of supposed "problem" dates in Mk 14:12 and Jn 19:24, see http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2303344-post1160.html.

Passover is Nissan 14, and Feast of Unleavened Bread is Nissan 15-21. . .there is no in between where Christ could have been crucified.
 
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Rakhel

Well-Known Member
Somehow I knew that if anyone would use Songs to prov prophesy, it would be you. But Ruth and Ester? :facepalm: That is really stretching.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
Since Mary descended from King David through Nathan (Lk 3:31), Jesus was the seed of David;
and since his legal father, Joseph, descended through King Solomon (Mt 1:60), Jesus was legally descended from the royal line of David.

1) Jesus fulfilled the first requirement of the Messiah, from the house of David (Isa 9:6-7; Jn 7:42; Mt 1:6),
2) He fulfilled the second requirement of the Messiah, born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2; Mt 2:4-6),
3) The Jewish NT writer, Matthew, singles out and specifically state these prophecies were fulfilled:
---a) Isaiah 7:14, 8:14-15, 9:6-7, 28:16, 42:6; 53:12, 61:1-2--virgin birth; rock of offense and stone of stumbling; seed of David; stone in Zion; a light to the Gentiles; numbered among the transgressors; miracles (Mt 1:22-23; Lk 20:18 & 1 Pe 2:8; Jn 7:42; 1 Pe 2:6; Lk 1:32, 22:37, 7:20-23),
---b) Jeremiah 31:15, 31-34--massacre of infants, new covenant in Jesus (Mt 2:17-18; Heb 8:7-13),
---c) Hosea 11:1--flight into Egypt (Mt 2:14),
---d) Zecariah 9:9, 13:7--king riding on a colt; shepherd smitten and sheep scattered (Mt 21:1-5, 26:31-32),
---e) Psalm 2:1-2, 7,--the Lord's Messiah; Son of God (Ac 4:25-27; Heb 5:5)
---f) Psalm 22:6-8,18--mocked; cast lots for his clothes (Mt 27:43; Jn 19:24),
---g) Psalm 34:20--no bones broken (Jn 19:33, 36),
---h) Psalm 40:6-8--came to do God's will (Heb 10:5-9),
---i) Psalm 45:6-7, 102:25-27, 110:1--Son of Righteousness; eternal; seated at the right hand of God (Heb 1:8-9, 10-12, 13),
---j) Psalm 69:9--stung by reproaches (Jn 2:17),
---k) Psalm 110:4--priest forever (Heb 7:15-17),
---l) Psalm 118:22--capstone builders rejected (Lk 20:17; Ac 4:10-12; 1 Pe 2:7),
---m) Deut 21:23 (not a prophecy)--cursed on the tree (Gal 3:13),
---n) Gen 12:3 (a promise)--all nations blessed through Abraham (Heb 6:13-15; Gal 3:8-9).

So you get a glimpse here of what they learned from Jesus after his resurrection, when "he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures," and walked them through the Law of Moses (Pentateuch), the Psalms and the Prophets, "explaining what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself." (Lk 24:4-47, 25-27)

And those above are just the ones in the gospel of Matthew. There are over 100 more throughout the NT.

And here's a bonus for those who've made it this far: Life Begins at Conception ---> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2227477-post1521.html
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
There's MORE?

Oh, smoky moved his post. Again.

I've been on the forum for quite a while now and I've never seen anyone do that. And edit 99.9% of their posts.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
The Bible as a whole, through "patterns (prefigures) of things to come" (Heb 10:1) in the NT, shows who Jesus is. And that is why the following are found in its individual books.

The more one is familiar with the Bible, the more one sees the patterns of Jesus in the OT.

**Indicates titles I added to the original list, which came from Christ in Every Book of the Bible, by Oral Roberts.
***Indicates non-doctrinal, non-theological similarity

. . . . . .IN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .JESUS IS THE. . . . . . . . . . .(NT ANTI-TYPE--fulfillment)

Genesis 3:15- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Promised seed of the woman (Lk 1:31, 34; Ro 16:20)
- - - - - 12:3, 22:18**- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - Blessing of all nations through Abraham (Gal 3:8-9)
Exodus 12:6- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - -Passover Lamb (1 Co 5:7)
- - - - - 13:21-22**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Pillar of cloud, pillar of fire--God's presence among his people (Emmanuel--God with us, Mt 1:22-23)
- - - - - 14:22-29**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Baptized into their mediator, deliverer and leader in the cloud and in the sea, depicting their submission to him (1 Co 10:1-2)
- - - - - 20:19 (Dt 5:5)**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mediator of (new) covenant (Gal 3:9; Heb 8:6-13, 9:15)
- - - - - 32:9-14, 30-34- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Intercessor (like Moses and High Priest) -- Ro 8:34; Heb 7:23-25, 9:24
Leviticus 1:5, 3:2, 8, 13**- - - - - - - - - - - - -Blood which cleanses from all sin (1 Jn 1:7)
- - - - - - 3:15**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Once-for-all perfect atoning sacrifice (Heb 7:27, 9:28, 10:12)
- - - - - -21:10, 21-23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Perfect High Priest (Heb 7:24-28, 9:11)
- - - - - -23:9-11**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Firstfruits of the resurrection (1 Co 15:22-23)
Numbers 20:11 (Ex 17:6)- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rock which was struck (crucifixion), and source of sustenance (1 Co 10:4)
Deuteronomy 18:15, 18- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prophet like Moses who was to come (Jn 6:14-15, 7:40, 1:21, 25; Lk 7:19-20, 24:19)
- - - - - - - - - -21:23**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cursed for us on a tree -- (Gal 3:13)
Joshua 1:5-11- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Captain of our salvation, leading God's people into the promised inheritance (salvation) -- (Heb 2:10)
Judges 2:16-23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Judge (Jn 5:22)
- - - - -2:16, 18**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Deliverer (2 Co 1:10; 1 Th 1:10)
Ruth 2:20- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - GOEL, kinsman redeemer (Lev 25:48-49) -- (Mt 1:21; Gal 4:4-5; 1 Pe 1:18-19)
I Samuel 2:21b, 26, 3:19, 7:5-6, 8-9- - - - - - Trusted prophet (Mt 12:41-42, 21:11, 46; Lk 1:76, 7:16; Jn 7:40)
I Kings 1:43-45- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Reigning King (1 Co 15:25)
Nehemiah 2:5, 17-18- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Restorer of what was lost (Ro 8:19-22; 2 Co 5:17)
Esther 7:3-4- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Our advocate with the Sovereign (1 Jn 2:1)
Job 1:8, 12**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Afflicted Righteous One (Ac 3:14, 7:52; 1 Jn 2:1)
Psalm 23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -The Lord, our Shepherd (Mt 2:6, 26:31; Jn 10:11, 14)
Proverbs, chp 8- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Our true wisdom (1 Co 1:24, 30; Col 2:2-3)
Ecclesiastes 1:2, 12:8, 1-7, 13-14- - - - - - - - Meaningful goal (Mt 6:33, 13:44-46, 16:26)
Song of Songs 1:13, 4:5, 7:1-13, 3:11- - - - - -Lover and bridegroom (Mt 25:1-10, 22:2; Jn 3:29; Rev 19:7-9)
Isaiah 9:6- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prince of Peace (Ac 10:36; Ro 5:1; Eph 2:13-16; 2 Th 3:16; Lk 1:79, 24:36; Jn 14:27)
Jeremiah 9:1, 13:17- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Weeping prophet (Lk 19:41-44)
Ezekiel 1:4-14- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Glorious creature (2 Sam 22:7-15; Dan 7:9-13) -- (Rev 4:6-8, 1:13-15, 2:18)
Daniel 3:22-25, 28-30- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Fourth man in fiery furnace (pious thought)
Hosea 3:1, 2:6-9, 1-7- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Eternal husband who restores the fallen bride (Ro 3:10-18, 5:19; Eph 2:1-5)
Joel 2:28-29, 32- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Baptizer with the Holy Spirit (Mt 3:11; Ac 2:16-21; Ro 10:13)
Amos 2:13- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Divine burden bearer (1 Pe 2:24; Mt 8:17; Heb 9:28)
Obadiah 15-18, 21-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Savior from and destroyer of the enemy (Mt 1:21; Lk 2:11, 19:10; Jn 3:17; Lk 10:18; Ro 16:20; Rev 12:10-11)
Jonah 3:4, 10- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Message of God's salvation to the Gentiles (Mt 28:19; Lk 24:27; Jn 3:36)
Micah 1:2, 6-7, 12, 6:1-2- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Avenger (Mt 3:10, 12, 24:50-51, 25:30, 41; Lk 19:27)
- - - - -5:2**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Shepherd ruler from Bethlehem (Mt 2:6, 26:31; Jn 10-11, 14; Lk 2:4-6)
Nahum 1:15 (Is 52:7)- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Messenger with beautiful feet (Ro 10:15)
Habakkuk 1:2-4, 13-17***- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Evangelist pleading for revival (Mt 23:37)
Zephaniah 3:17- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Lord Mighty to Save (Mt 1:21; Jn 12:47b; 1 Tim 1:15; 2 Tim 1:8-9; Heb 7:25)
Haggai 2:3-4, 7-9, 23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Restorer of the lost heritage (signet ring = seal, pledge or guarantee--Gen 38:17-18--of restoration) -- (Jn 5:24, 6:40, 10:28)
Zechariah 3:8-9, 6:12-13 (Is 4:2; Jer 23:5)**- Branch (sheaf) offered as Firstfruits (Lev 23:9-11) of resurrection (1 Co 15:22-23)
- - - - - - -13:1- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fountain opened in the house of David for cleansing of sin (1 Jn 1:7; Heb 9:14)
Malachi 4:2- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sun of Righteousness rising with healing in its wings (Lk 1:78; Eph 5:14; Mt 4:23, 8:16, 14:14, 15:30)

Now to these 45 types add all the OT prophecies which the NT writers claim that Jesus fulfilled, of which only those from Matthew are shown in
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2359396-post1467.html

The links among the books of the OT and the NT are so strong, numerous and thorough that they leave no doubt about the unity of the Bible as a whole.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
:biglaugh:

Smoky, do you really think that anyone is going to read your posts?

Only a glace tells the reader that it's spam, and you've reinforced that judgement by posting it a million times.

What you should do is create a thread about just one of these references and try to argue your point.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
Angellous you should know better by now. It's Smoky.

I was just reading over his list again and noticed Job. And Jonah? please tell me this is not the norm.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Angellous you should know better by now. It's Smoky.

I was just reading over his list again and noticed Job. And Jonah? please tell me this is not the norm.

No, what Smoky is doing is not the norm.

Jonah is the only think that comes close, first because like Christ he was in the grave for three days, and Jesus mentions Jonah as a metaphor of himself.

But the whole idea that Jonah is a Christ-type or a prophesy of Christ (etc) is not normative biblical interpretation for Christians or anyone else.

As for Job, absolutely not.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
No, what Smoky is doing is not the norm.

Jonah is the only think that comes close, first because like Christ he was in the grave for three days, and Jesus mentions Jonah as a metaphor of himself.

But the whole idea that Jonah is a Christ-type or a prophesy of Christ (etc) is not normative biblical interpretation for Christians or anyone else.

As for Job, absolutely not.
How sad that you know so little of Scripture and so little orthodox Reformed theology. . .for one who claims to be a Biblical "scholar". . .so sad. . .
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
How sad that you know so little of Scripture and so little orthodox Reformed theology. . .for one who claims to be a Biblical "scholar". . .so sad. . .

I am a biblical scholar, and you're not a competent representative of Reformed theology.

Even if there were a Reformed theologian who believed anything close to what you do, it would be expressed in a more reasonable and conservative manner (avoiding wild speculation), and perhaps it might even be more closely related to historical Christianity.

You might not realize that Christianity existed 1500 years before Reformed theology and another 600 years after that. Reformed theology is just one of many Christian theologies and (guess what) not the most popular.

I know what Reformed theology is, and obviously I don't adhere to it, and even more obviously I don't care that you're sad that I don't follow a theology that I don't believe. To me it's insignificant, useless, dead, and a worthless lump of misinterpretations of Scripture. It started out bad and ended up worse.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
I am a biblical scholar, and you're not a competent representative of Reformed theology.
Even if there were a Reformed theologian who believed anything close to what you do, it would be expressed in a more reasonable and conservative manner (avoiding wild speculation), and perhaps it might even be more closely related to historical Christianity.
You might not realize that Christianity existed 1500 years before Reformed theology and another 600 years after that. Reformed theology is just one of many Christian theologies and (guess what) not the most popular.
I know what Reformed theology is, and obviously I don't adhere to it, and even more obviously I don't care that you're sad that I don't follow a theology that I don't believe. To me it's insignificant, useless, dead, and a worthless lump of misinterpretations of Scripture. It started out bad and ended up worse.
iQ.E.D.
 

smokydot

Well-Known Member
The Bible as a whole, through "patterns (prefigures) of things to come" (Heb 10:1) in the NT, shows who Jesus is. And that is why the following are found in its individual books.

The more one is familiar with the Bible, the more one sees the patterns of Jesus in the OT.

**Indicates titles I added to the original list, which came from Christ in Every Book of the Bible, by Oral Roberts.
***Indicates non-doctrinal, non-theological similarity

. . . . . .IN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .JESUS IS THE. . . . . . . . . . .(NT ANTI-TYPE--fulfillment)

Genesis 3:15- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Promised seed of the woman (Lk 1:31, 34; Ro 16:20)
- - - - - 12:3, 22:18**- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - Blessing of all nations through Abraham (Gal 3:8-9)
Exodus 12:6- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - -Passover Lamb (1 Co 5:7)
- - - - - 13:21-22**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Pillar of cloud, pillar of fire--God's presence among his people (Emmanuel--God with us, Mt 1:22-23)
- - - - - 14:22-29**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Baptized into their mediator, deliverer and leader in the cloud and in the sea, depicting their submission to him (1 Co 10:1-2)
- - - - - 20:19 (Dt 5:5)**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mediator of (new) covenant (Gal 3:9; Heb 8:6-13, 9:15)
- - - - - 32:9-14, 30-34- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Intercessor (like Moses and High Priest) -- Ro 8:34; Heb 7:23-25, 9:24
Leviticus 1:5, 3:2, 8, 13**- - - - - - - - - - - - -Blood which cleanses from all sin (1 Jn 1:7)
- - - - - - 3:15**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Once-for-all perfect atoning sacrifice (Heb 7:27, 9:28, 10:12)
- - - - - -21:10, 21-23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Perfect High Priest (Heb 7:24-28, 9:11)
- - - - - -23:9-11**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Firstfruits of the resurrection (1 Co 15:22-23)
Numbers 20:11 (Ex 17:6)- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rock which was struck (crucifixion), and source of sustenance (1 Co 10:4)
Deuteronomy 18:15, 18- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prophet like Moses who was to come (Jn 6:14-15, 7:40, 1:21, 25; Lk 7:19-20, 24:19)
- - - - - - - - - -21:23**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cursed for us on a tree -- (Gal 3:13)
Joshua 1:5-11- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Captain of our salvation, leading God's people into the promised inheritance (salvation) -- (Heb 2:10)
Judges 2:16-23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Judge (Jn 5:22)
- - - - -2:16, 18**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Deliverer (2 Co 1:10; 1 Th 1:10)
Ruth 2:20- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - GOEL, kinsman redeemer (Lev 25:48-49) -- (Mt 1:21; Gal 4:4-5; 1 Pe 1:18-19)
I Samuel 2:21b, 26, 3:19, 7:5-6, 8-9- - - - - - Trusted prophet (Mt 12:41-42, 21:11, 46; Lk 1:76, 7:16; Jn 7:40)
I Kings 1:43-45- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Reigning King (1 Co 15:25)
Nehemiah 2:5, 17-18- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Restorer of what was lost (Ro 8:19-22; 2 Co 5:17)
Esther 7:3-4- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Our advocate with the Sovereign (1 Jn 2:1)
Job 1:12**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Afflicted Righteous One (Ac 3:14, 7:52; Mt 27:46; 1 Jn 2:1)
Psalm 23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -The Lord, our Shepherd (Mt 2:6, 26:31; Jn 10:11, 14)
Proverbs, chp 8- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Our true wisdom (1 Co 1:24, 30; Col 2:2-3)
Ecclesiastes 1:2, 12:8, 1-7, 13-14- - - - - - - - Meaningful goal (Mt 6:33, 13:44-46, 16:26)
Song of Songs 1:13, 4:5, 7:1-13, 3:11- - - - - -Lover and bridegroom (Mt 25:1-10, 22:2; Jn 3:29; Rev 19:7-9)
Isaiah 9:6- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prince of Peace (Ac 10:36; Ro 5:1; Eph 2:13-16; 2 Th 3:16; Lk 1:79, 24:36; Jn 14:27)
Jeremiah 9:1, 13:17- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Weeping prophet (Lk 19:41-44)
Ezekiel 1:4-14- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Glorious creature (2 Sam 22:7-15; Dan 7:9-13) -- (Rev 4:6-8, 1:13-15, 2:18)
Daniel 3:22-25, 28-30- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Fourth man in fiery furnace (pious thought)
Hosea 3:1, 2:6-9, 1-7- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Eternal husband who saves the fallen bride (Ro 3:10-18, 5:19; Eph 2:1-5)
Joel 2:28-29, 32- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Baptizer with the Holy Spirit (Mt 3:11; Ac 2:16-21; Ro 10:13)
Amos 7:13- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Divine burden bearer (1 Pe 2:24; Mt 8:17; Heb 9:28)
Obadiah 15-18, 21-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Savior from and destroyer of the enemy (Mt 1:21; Lk 2:11, 19:10; Jn 3:17; Lk 10:18; Ro 16:20; Rev 12:10-11)
Jonah 3:4, 10- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Message of God's salvation to the Gentiles (Mt 28:19; Lk 24:27; Jn 3:36)
Micah 1:2, 6-7, 12, 6:1-2- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Avenger (Mt 3:10, 12, 24:50-51, 25:30, 41; Lk 19:27)
- - - - -5:2**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Shepherd ruler from Bethlehem (Mt 2:6, 26:31; Jn 10-11, 14; Lk 2:4-6)
Nahum 1:15 (Is 52:7)- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Messenger with beautiful feet (Ro 10:15)
Habakkuk 1:2-4, 13-17***- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Evangelist pleading for revival (Mt 23:37)
Zephaniah 3:17- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Lord Mighty to Save (Mt 1:21; Jn 12:47b; 1 Tim 1:15; 2 Tim 1:8-9; Heb 7:25)
Haggai 2:3-4, 7-9, 23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Restorer of the lost heritage (signet ring = seal, pledge or guarantee--Gen 38:17-18--of restoration) -- (Jn 5:24, 6:40, 10:28)
Zechariah 3:8-9, 6:12-13 (Is 4:2; Jer 23:5)**- Branch (sheaf) offered as Firstfruits (Lev 23:9-11) of resurrection (1 Co 15:22-23)
- - - - - - -13:1- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fountain opened in the house of David for cleansing of sin (1 Jn 1:7; Heb 9:14)
Malachi 4:2- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sun of Righteousness rising with healing in its wings (Lk 1:78; Eph 5:14; Mt 4:23, 8:16, 14:14, 15:30)

Now to these 45 types add all the OT prophecies which the NT writers claim that Jesus fulfilled, of which only those from Matthew are shown in
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2359396-post1467.html

The links among the books of the OT and the NT are so strong, numerous and thorough that they leave no doubt about the unity of the Bible as a whole.
 
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fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
What does Jesus being in every book of the Bible have to do with the day he was crucified? I think Smoky is an agent of Satan who is trying to make sane people kill their computers.
 
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