What comes before Genesis 1:1&2?

[AdamjEdgar]

Genesis:1 1In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

We can interpret i think that Genesis 1:1 is quite self explanatory, however, the question arises in verse 2...the earth had been created, however, it is void and without form.

So what is Moses describing to us in verse 2?

When i google search the meanings of the words i get the following:

void - "a completely empty space."

without form -

• abnormal
• amorphic
• amorphous
• anomalous
• assymetrical
• baggy
• deformed
• disfigured
• embryonic
• ill-formed
• inchoate
• indefinite
• indeterminate
• indistinct
• invisible
• irregular
• malformed
• misshapen
• mutilated
• nebulous
• undeveloped
• unformed
• ungraceful
• unmade
• unshapely
• unstructured
• unsymmetrical
• vague
• without character
• without form

Is the statement in Genesis 1:1 simply referring to the earth as an idea, but not a literal object?

What is Moses telling us in verse 2...

"darkness is over the face of the deep"

what is the "face of the deep" referring to?

we can see that at some point waters appear, however, it seems inconsistent with the laws of gravity for there to be water contained within the gravitational field of this planet and it to not have any shape.

I would be interested in a breakdown of various views on the exact interpretation of the first few verses in Genesis 1 looking at these points.

 

[The Hammer]

In the beginning was Ginnungagap.

Ginnungagap, in Germanic mythology, is the void in which the world was created.

So Void was the beginning before the beginning.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Do you remember the story of the crossing of the Red Sea? The waters were divided, and the Israelites crossed over on dry land. Something like that is happening, however it is happening in all six cardinal directions. The water draws away and land is the result, and the existence of that land is maintained through the withholding of the water. Should the waters be released, Eden would be destroyed. The waters are held back by words.

For Christians this possibly connects to that piece of the Revelation vision which appears in ch8 and ch9, in which four angels bound are released from the Euphrates river and kill a third of all people. Euphrates is one of the rivers that flows from the headwaters in Eden, and these headwaters arise from the depths which water the plants in Eden. From Eden they flow to water everything -- all of the world. All rivers come from Eden. The four angels bound in one of the four rivers are able to destroy a third of all people. In other words in the vision 1/3 of all people get their water from the Euphrates or are touched by Euphrates. Perhaps the angels poison people or flood people. It doesn't say, but the death probably refers to spiritual poverty rather than physical death.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

very insightful and interesting concepts in the above answers...i am going to investigate these.

I note that in a lecture by Dr. Albert Mohler

the statement is made that in six days God created the heavens and the earth...he then seems to expand on this by stating "universe" rather than heavens.

Now I have a bit of an issue with Dr. Molhers's statement in that i do not think that "the heavens" and "the universe" are the same thing. It would appear to me that Moses is writing from the perspective of his own reality...therefore I feel that this would be what he sense around himself (ie physcial surroundings during the day, and stars at night).

I know that we are capable of looking beyond our solar system in great detail with the aid of telescopes. We can 3 dimensionally model it in equally great detail, however, i the naked eye of a few thousand years ago in Moses time, I wonder if in fact, the heavens were far less than what we attribute that word to mean today?

Perhaps an alternative explanation to the expanse visible to Moses and now a far greater depth than we are able to see today is that God has in fact alternative universes?

I guess the reason i bring up the dilemma with Dr. Mohler's use of the universe for heavens...it creates havoc with the belief in a God who has always been...who is timeless. What has this "timeless God" been doing for countless years prior to Genesis 1:1 if indeed the universe was created at this point?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Genesis:1 1In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

We can interpret i think that Genesis 1:1 is quite self explanatory, however, the question arises in verse 2...the earth had been created, however, it is void and without form.

So what is Moses describing to us in verse 2?

When i google search the meanings of the words i get the following:

void - "a completely empty space."

without form -

• abnormal
• amorphic
• amorphous
• anomalous
• assymetrical
• baggy
• deformed
• disfigured
• embryonic
• ill-formed
• inchoate
• indefinite
• indeterminate
• indistinct
• invisible
• irregular
• malformed
• misshapen
• mutilated
• nebulous
• undeveloped
• unformed
• ungraceful
• unmade
• unshapely
• unstructured
• unsymmetrical
• vague
• without character
• without form

Is the statement in Genesis 1:1 simply referring to the earth as an idea, but not a literal object?

What is Moses telling us in verse 2...

"darkness is over the face of the deep"

what is the "face of the deep" referring to?

we can see that at some point waters appear, however, it seems inconsistent with the laws of gravity for there to be water contained within the gravitational field of this planet and it to not have any shape.

I would be interested in a breakdown of various views on the exact interpretation of the first few verses in Genesis 1 looking at these points.

It was devoid of spiritual life. In the Bible the terms light and darkness death and rebirth all refer to spiritual realities. The seven days of creation is not referring to the creation of the physical earth which is about 4.5 billion years old.

My understand is that the seven days, which is one week, refers to the Adamic Cycle. Since Adam there have been about seven Days of God. A Day of God is the arising of a new Prophet. So since Adam we have had Moses, Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, Zoroaster, Krishna and the Bab. All these Prophets foretold a Promised One, a Promised Messiah to appear at the end of time (the Adamic Cycle) to usher in the Cycle of fulfilment. From Adam to the Bab, all the scriptures focused on the Day of God, on the Day of Resurrection on the Promised One.

But at the end of the Adamic Cycle, the end of the Prophetic age, the Promised One appears, the age of fulfilment begins where all the promises made by God will be successfully and successively fulfilled.

So we see now with the coming of Baha’u’llah, the one shepherd and one fold has appeared, a world community and the world has become physically united through technology because this is the age of peace and fulfilment which is unfolding as foretold.

So we are witnessing the death pangs of the old ways and the birth pangs of a new world spiritual civilisation which is known to Christians as the Kingdom of God on earth.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

My understand is that the seven days, which is one week, refers to the Adamic Cycle. Since Adam there have been about seven Days of God.

i am supposing this idea comes from the biblical "prophetic day/year principle" that SDA's, Jehovah's Witnesses and indeed Bahai's believe... Day-year principle - Wikipedia

I would have an issue with this assumption for the following reason:

if it is taken from the biblical narrative, the day/year principle has very specific biblical instructions of how and when it should be applied. The Genesis account of creation (as far as i understand it) does not in any way fit in with such requirements...so the age of the earth is not a day/year principle in the way it could be interpreted.

an interesting concept and I appreciate your putting it forward for consideration, however, i do not think that theologically it can be supported that this principle can be applied to the creation account. I would be open to biblical references that explain this principle in a manner that provides strong evidence it [your view] is applicable to Genesis creation account and the Torah (first 5 books of the bible)

 

[74x12]

Genesis:1 1In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

We can interpret i think that Genesis 1:1 is quite self explanatory, however, the question arises in verse 2...the earth had been created, however, it is void and without form.

So what is Moses describing to us in verse 2?

When i google search the meanings of the words i get the following:

void - "a completely empty space."

without form -

• abnormal
• amorphic
• amorphous
• anomalous
• assymetrical
• baggy
• deformed
• disfigured
• embryonic
• ill-formed
• inchoate
• indefinite
• indeterminate
• indistinct
• invisible
• irregular
• malformed
• misshapen
• mutilated
• nebulous
• undeveloped
• unformed
• ungraceful
• unmade
• unshapely
• unstructured
• unsymmetrical
• vague
• without character
• without form

Is the statement in Genesis 1:1 simply referring to the earth as an idea, but not a literal object?

What is Moses telling us in verse 2...

"darkness is over the face of the deep"

what is the "face of the deep" referring to?

we can see that at some point waters appear, however, it seems inconsistent with the laws of gravity for there to be water contained within the gravitational field of this planet and it to not have any shape.

I would be interested in a breakdown of various views on the exact interpretation of the first few verses in Genesis 1 looking at these points.

Well it seems that Genesis 1:1 is a summary of the rest of the chapter. Because God doesn't make the "earth" until day 3 and the heavens on day 2.

What came before is unknown. But it seems that the planet may have already been there. It just seems to have been covered in water. Some people believe it was inhabited before Adam by pre-Adamic race of beings. These people sinned and this is where Satan might originate. So God flooded that world completely obliterating their entire culture. Which is why the "earth" (that is dry land) was void and waste and completely under water. Then God made the earth appear again by rising up from the water and made Adam and Eve. However, I can't say that this is what did or didn't happen.

 

[rational experiences]

Genesis:1 1In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

We can interpret i think that Genesis 1:1 is quite self explanatory, however, the question arises in verse 2...the earth had been created, however, it is void and without form.

So what is Moses describing to us in verse 2?

When i google search the meanings of the words i get the following:

void - "a completely empty space."

without form -

• abnormal
• amorphic
• amorphous
• anomalous
• assymetrical
• baggy
• deformed
• disfigured
• embryonic
• ill-formed
• inchoate
• indefinite
• indeterminate
• indistinct
• invisible
• irregular
• malformed
• misshapen
• mutilated
• nebulous
• undeveloped
• unformed
• ungraceful
• unmade
• unshapely
• unstructured
• unsymmetrical
• vague
• without character
• without form

Is the statement in Genesis 1:1 simply referring to the earth as an idea, but not a literal object?

What is Moses telling us in verse 2...

"darkness is over the face of the deep"

what is the "face of the deep" referring to?

we can see that at some point waters appear, however, it seems inconsistent with the laws of gravity for there to be water contained within the gravitational field of this planet and it to not have any shape.

I would be interested in a breakdown of various views on the exact interpretation of the first few verses in Genesis 1 looking at these points.

A theist.
A liar.

Human first on earth.

The earth he says. A direct word is the earth as the planet he stands on.

A theist which the bible is written about an evil minded human said I am the destroyer. A humans science confession.

Of Sion. Fusion.

Theism I want the earth to be void.

Aware teaching the earth present as God was cooling in the void. The void owned no form.

Reasoning O earth the planet thought of as earth and God by a theist wanting gods power.

Void by human theory the cooling empty space vacuum removing heat out of O the body God earth.

I was thinking about the states I wanted in science.

As when it was heard and written it was all about the human scientist who had evicted human life in a God thesis out of earths garden by temple pyramid. Old men's wisdom.

 

[loverofhumanity]

i am supposing this idea comes from the biblical "prophetic day/year principle" that SDA's, Jehovah's Witnesses and indeed Bahai's believe... Day-year principle - Wikipedia

I would have an issue with this assumption for the following reason:

if it is taken from the biblical narrative, the day/year principle has very specific biblical instructions of how and when it should be applied. The Genesis account of creation (as far as i understand it) does not in any way fit in with such requirements...so the age of the earth is not a day/year principle in the way it could be interpreted.

an interesting concept and I appreciate your putting it forward for consideration, however, i do not think that theologically it can be supported that this principle can be applied to the creation account. I would be open to biblical references that explain this principle in a manner that provides strong evidence it [your view] is applicable to Genesis creation account and the Torah (first 5 books of the bible)

Just a few verses of Genesis to me convey the history of religion up until now. Imagine what mysteries Revelation holds. There are entire chapters about Islam.

For thousands of years, interpreters of the Bible have left out by design possibilities they have not wanted to entertain. But other interpretations tell a completely different story.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So what is Moses describing to us in verse 2?

Simple, what we would term as "Absolute nothing" (Ex-nihilo) today. God somehow sprang out of that.
Nasaqdiya Sukta of RigVeda also says the same thing. Only that it makes creation first and Gods later to that. That is even better than God before creation, as the discrepancies of Genesis do not arise with that version (what was created first and what was created later).

1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
2 Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.
3 Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscriminated chaos.
6. The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

 

[rational experiences]

If a theist says I want burning and cooling in the same moment wouldn't the theist name it the void of earth?

Yet they are two separate functions occurring in a third status the condition first?

So science says I learn. Science is what he claims he learns by.

As teaching does not exist.

Learning means I don't know. I want to know.

As consciousness the human makes all the claims.

Taught...I learnt I theoried evil. His story....I destroyed all life on earth. Poles shifted he says by science.

Which was his answer.

He knows he wasn't alive as a human in the void.
He knows when the poles shifted he wasn't alive then either.

Beginning never equalled his end concluded evidence.

As how can a beginning equate the word end and be the word beginning?

 

[Sedim Haba]

Genesis:1 1In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

We can interpret i think that Genesis 1:1 is quite self explanatory, however, the question arises in verse 2...the earth had been created, however, it is void and without form.

So what is Moses describing to us in verse 2?
...

What is Moses telling us in verse 2...

"darkness is over the face of the deep"

what is the "face of the deep" referring to?

we can see that at some point waters appear, however, it seems inconsistent with the laws of gravity for there to be water contained within the gravitational field of this planet and it to not have any shape.

I would be interested in a breakdown of various views on the exact interpretation of the first few verses in Genesis 1 looking at these points.

'Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of G-d hovered over the face of the waters.'

The darkness and the void are pretty self-explanatory. The waters represents chaos. Water is chaotic.

(It's NOT literal, actual H2O water. It's metaphor or allegory )

 

[Native]

We can interpret i think that Genesis 1:1 is quite self explanatory, however, the question arises in verse 2...the earth had been created, however, it is void and without form.
So what is Moses describing to us in verse 2?

Thank you for your interesting OP.
Moses is describing the creation from non formed floating cosmic clouds in the heavenly voids.
God = Light is electromagnetically attracting these clouds of gas to form GASEOUS stars and clouds of DUST to form FIRM MATTERS in general.

Its the prime Biblical mention of "earth" = FIRM MATTERS = soil and clay, which is scholarly interpreted and confused to be THE EARTH - which really IS created later on in the telling.

In this sense, the Biblical Creation Story is very similar to the modern creation story of the Solar System - but the Biblical one (and all other cultural Creation Stories regards our entire Milky Way and not just the Solar System)