What are the benefits for a woman who joins Islam out of her own choice ?

[Nakosis]

but why talk about the obvious?
there is no question as to a woman having equal rights and opportunities...islamic or not.

this thread is a non starter...what are the benefits? really?
does the OP mean she can get a 10% discount on a burqua if she buys it at
burquas are us?
:sarcastic

What I figure is markymark has got himself all geared up to go head to head with Muslims debating how bad, despicable the religion of Islam is.

Maybe watching a lot o videos, etc.. of people ripping Muhammad a new one. He's looking for someone to test his debating skills on.

I'm just not enough of an advocate for any particular religion to argue the intricacies of the Qur'an.

 

[Looncall]

Is it a competition? Who wears the trousers? etc.

I'm quite happy being an old-fashioned type of guy .. Christianity is being stripped of its moral base .. Islam stands firm!

"To honour and obey" is no longer part of Christian marriage vows .. shame..
Men and women should have equal human rights, but when it comes to marriage, men have more responsibility .. they must provide for their wives and children .. whereas a woman has no financial responsibility other than her 'accessories'

Only in barbarous societies where a women has no independent existence and is treated as livestock. In any case, a "kept" wife surely still has household responsibilities.

Why could it not be the wife who earns the living, or both?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why could it not be the wife who earns the living, or both?

It can .. but she has no obligation, whereas the husband does.

 

[waitasec]

It can .. but she has no obligation, whereas the husband does.

but isn't that a general understanding given the idea that the husband has traditionally been the provider?
why can't a husband be supported by his wife? why must he be obligated?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..why can't a husband be supported by his wife? why must he be obligated?

I thought that it was fairly obvious..
Women have children, and the 'equipment' to feed them etc.

 

[waitasec]

I thought that it was fairly obvious..

no it's not so obvious

i supported my husband for 10 yrs...
he's a musician, he concentrated on his craft and now he is supporting me and our son, i work...write music from home...we're all home doing what we like because if i hadn't supported my husband for those 10 yrs, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing now

Women have children, and the 'equipment' to feed them etc.

i'm not sure if you are trying to bait me but that is a faulty way of looking at another human being...what if she is barren? is a woman not a woman because she can't conceive....or what if the husband can't get her pregnant?
is he not a man because he can't get his wife pregnant?

 

[muhammad_isa]

i'm not sure if you are trying to bait me

I don't know why you say that..

..what if she is barren?

I've already agreed that there's not a "one size fits all"..

Nevertheless .. that's the main difference between men and women .. childbirth & weaning
Why should it not be relevant, just beacause some people don't or can't have children?
. . .

In any case .. it's one good reason why a woman might feel more secure in an Islamic society.
I'm not a woman, but I have had a little experience with their psychology .. quite understandable too, that they would like to have children if they feel secure and provided for.
It's nature
..that Almighty God has given us, as He's given other creatures .. created us "in pairs" .. and many hardships to confront.

 

[waitasec]

I don't know why you say that..

I've already agreed that there's not a "one size fits all"..

Nevertheless .. that's the main difference between men and women .. childbirth & weaning

not all the time, as you yourself said. so why hold onto this tradition?
had i done that my family wouldn't be in the position we are in now.

Why should it not be relevant, just beacause some people don't or can't have children?

to suggest that it is the mans obligation to support the family is no longer a part of an evolving society...
. . .

In any case .. it's one good reason why a woman might feel more secure in an Islamic society.

well as a woman, it feels good to have accomplished something, or to make a name for myself rather than to depend on a man. dependance is a sign of weakness. i've seen many many old school cuban women who are lost when their husbands die because of the very same mindset you seem to be encouraging.

I'm not a woman, but I have had a little experience with their psychology .. quite understandable too, that they would like to have children if they feel secure and provided for.

i don't think that the most important purpose for a woman is to have children. that is an old school over generalization.

It's nature

it's also natural to be curious and to want to learn and become independent.

..that Almighty God has given us, as He's given other creatures .. created us "in pairs" .. and many hardships to confront.

not everyone wants to get married. nor should everyone be married either...even if they wanted to...some are really bad husbands and some are really bad wives.

 

[muhammad_isa]

i don't think that the most important purpose for a woman is to have children. that is an old school over generalization.

Clearly..
Why do you suppose that is? Isn't going along with an "evolving society" just swimming along with the tide..
..until eventually, we realise that we have to have a reason for not setting our own course.
Modern society might look as though it's "a paradise", but it has a nasty habit of backfiring on us.

I would suggest that technological changes in the 20th century has changed the roles of men and women, particularly in western society .. BEWARE .. PARADISE LOST!

 

[waitasec]

Clearly..
Why do you suppose that is? Isn't going along with an "evolving society" just swimming along with the tide..

absolutely not.
if we never changed our way of thinking we would still have slaves.

..until eventually, we realise that we have to have a reason for not setting our own course.
Modern society might look as though it's "a paradise", but it has a nasty habit of backfiring on us.

how?

I would suggest that technological changes in the 20th century has changed the roles of men and women, particularly in western society .. BEWARE .. PARADISE LOST!

sounds like you are afraid of change...
change is good as growing pains are natural and necessary.

 

[muhammad_isa]

sounds like you are afraid of change...

I realise that change is inevitable, but some changes will jus lead us to destruction.

Men need women and women need men .. the time will come when women will no longer have the opportunity to 'have a husband'.

Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone
They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot..
:islam:

 

[fishy]

Clearly..
Why do you suppose that is? Isn't going along with an "evolving society" just swimming along with the tide..
..until eventually, we realise that we have to have a reason for not setting our own course.
Modern society might look as though it's "a paradise", but it has a nasty habit of backfiring on us.

I would suggest that technological changes in the 20th century has changed the roles of men and women, particularly in western society .. BEWARE .. PARADISE LOST!

Or staying in a stagnant pool?

That is precisely what you are afraid of, you see western women who are strong, capable, self-sufficient; women who don't need a man in charge and it emasculates you, Islam tells you that men are superior and yet these women prove the opposite, they prove your god wrong. That is what frightens you.

 

[waitasec]

I realise that change is inevitable, but some changes will jus lead us to destruction.

you won't know it until you try otherwise one is living in fear.

Men need women and women need men .. the time will come when women will no longer have the opportunity to 'have a husband'.

Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone
They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot..

maybe that's what you are afraid of?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Islam tells you that men are superior and yet these women prove the opposite

No! Islam doesn't say that men are superior.
Only Almighty God is superior.

This infighting between men and women is from satan, and leads to misery

 

[fishy]

No! Islam doesn't say that men are superior.
Only Almighty God is superior.

This infighting between men and women is from satan, and leads to misery

What infighting do you speak of? I don't fight with my wife about what your god says she should do, how she should dress, where she can go, who she can see. That would seem to be the superior muslim males role, but of course she must submit to him because she's inferior in all the important things. Oh yes she can have and nurture children.
As long as women do as they are told by their menfolk, they can be as equal as they like. Paraphrasing Muhammad.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't fight with my wife about what your god says she should do, how she should dress, where she can go, who she can see.

Great .. you shouldn't have to fight with your wife .. a believing woman does not obey her husband through fear, but for the pleasure of Almighty God. She realises that in doing so, she will be rewarded herself, eventually .. even if she dislikes what he asks of her.
If a woman is married to an unreasonable man, then she has no obligation to stay with him.

 

[fishy]

Great .. you shouldn't have to fight with your wife .. a believing woman does not obey her husband through fear, but for the pleasure of Almighty God. She realises that in doing so, she will be rewarded herself, eventually .. even if she dislikes what he asks of her.
If a woman is married to an unreasonable man, then she has no obligation to stay with him.

a believing woman does not obey her husband through fear, but for the pleasure of Almighty God

The pleasure of almighty god and if she doesn't supply almighty god with pleasure she will be punished, but no fear involved. Do as you are told and you will be better off. Did someone say domestic abuse?
BTW is the woman's reward in paradise the same as a man's? How many virgins does she get?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Great .. you shouldn't have to fight with your wife .. a believing woman does not obey her husband through fear, but for the pleasure of Almighty God. She realises that in doing so, she will be rewarded herself, eventually .. even if she dislikes what he asks of her.
If a woman is married to an unreasonable man, then she has no obligation to stay with him.

Who gets to decide if he is being unreasonable? Her? Him? Or a panel of other men?

If a woman wants to be submissive out of her own accord, that's her business. But it isn't for everybody. And I disagree with it being mandated from a government agency, from a cleric, or from a holy book.

 

[faheemkamran]

Women in the Quran and the Sunnah
Prof. 'Abdur Rahman I. Doi
In Islam there is absolutely no difference between men and women as far as their relationship to Allah is concerned, as both are promised the same reward for good conduct and the same punishment for evil conduct. The Quran says:
"And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." [Noble Quran 2:228]
The Quran, in addressing the believers, often uses the expression, 'believing men and women' to emphasize the equality of men and women in regard to their respective duties, rights, virtues and merits. It says:
"For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward." [Noble Quran 33:35]
This clearly contradicts the assertion of the Christian Fathers that women do not possess souls and that they will exist as sexless beings in the next life. The Quran says that women have souls in exactly the same way as men and will enter Paradise if they do good:
"Enter into Paradise, you and your wives, with delight." [Noble Quran 43:70]
"Who so does that which is right, and believes, whether male or female, him or her will We quicken to happy life." [Noble Quran 16:97]
The Quran admonishes those men who oppress or ill-treat women:
"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." [Noble Quran 4:19]
Considering the fact that before the advent of Islam the pagan Arabs used to bury their female children alive, make women dance naked in the vicinity of the Ka'bah during their annual fairs, and treat women as mere chattels and objects of sexual pleasure possessing no rights or position whatsoever, these teachings of the Noble Quran were revolutionary. Unlike other religions, which regarded women as being possessed of inherent sin and wickedness and men as being possessed of inherent virtue and nobility, Islam regards men and women as being of the same essence created from a single soul. The Quran declares:
"O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence Allah, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for Allah ever watches over you." [Noble Quran 4:1]

 

[Looncall]

Women in the Quran and the Sunnah
Prof. 'Abdur Rahman I. Doi
In Islam there is absolutely no difference between men and women as far as their relationship to Allah is concerned, as both are promised the same reward for good conduct and the same punishment for evil conduct. The Quran says:
"And for women are rights over men similar to those of men over women." [Noble Quran 2:228]
The Quran, in addressing the believers, often uses the expression, 'believing men and women' to emphasize the equality of men and women in regard to their respective duties, rights, virtues and merits. It says:
"For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward." [Noble Quran 33:35]
This clearly contradicts the assertion of the Christian Fathers that women do not possess souls and that they will exist as sexless beings in the next life. The Quran says that women have souls in exactly the same way as men and will enter Paradise if they do good:
"Enter into Paradise, you and your wives, with delight." [Noble Quran 43:70]
"Who so does that which is right, and believes, whether male or female, him or her will We quicken to happy life." [Noble Quran 16:97]
The Quran admonishes those men who oppress or ill-treat women:
"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." [Noble Quran 4:19]
Considering the fact that before the advent of Islam the pagan Arabs used to bury their female children alive, make women dance naked in the vicinity of the Ka'bah during their annual fairs, and treat women as mere chattels and objects of sexual pleasure possessing no rights or position whatsoever, these teachings of the Noble Quran were revolutionary. Unlike other religions, which regarded women as being possessed of inherent sin and wickedness and men as being possessed of inherent virtue and nobility, Islam regards men and women as being of the same essence created from a single soul. The Quran declares:
"O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence Allah, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for Allah ever watches over you." [Noble Quran 4:1]

So, why are women oppressed in muslim countries?