What about "God is Spirit" don't you accept? Christians only (all variants)

[nutshell]

LDS have a momma too. I didn't know that. Love it when I learn something new.:jiggy:

We don't worship her or teach about her, etc...I'm not even sure if it's official doctrine, but the idea of a Heavenly Mother certainly exists.

 

[Quiddity]

We don't worship her or teach about her, etc...I'm not even sure if it's official doctrine, but the idea of a Heavenly Mother certainly exists.

Similar to us, except it is doctrine for us.

 

[Polaris]

Fair enough, but every single one of those passages can be read allegorically. People say my daughter is my spitting image (just yesterday by my wife). We look NOTHING alike, but our character and mischievousness are near identical. She has my spirit, but not my looks.

Sure all of those passages CAN be read allegorically, however, they could also have been intended as literal statements. Either way it doesn't contradict what I believe, however, if even a single one were to be intended literally it would throw off your whole argument by contradicting your "God is a Spirit" interpretation. So either you are reading too much into the "spirit" verse and ALL references to God's physical characterists MUST be allegorical, or my interpretation is correct and I can read scripture describing God's physical nature and openly interpret it based on its context. The latter seems to make a lot more sense to me.

Now, if Jesus was made in God's image and I am made in God's image and You are made in God's image and that image is PHYSICAL, then why don't we look alike? Why don't we even look like brothers? Are you suggesting that someone born with no arms or legs is NOT in God's image? How about the baby with spina bifida?

We are made in His image and likeness, we were not made to look exactly like Him. Your argument here is just plain silly. Of course we run the risk of deformity and disease that can alter our appearance, however when we are resurrected we will have a perfect body, much more like God's.

What about God gets old like the rest of us? Did God start out as an infant?

God has a glorified, perfected body that doesn't age, similar to the body that Christ (an all of us) attain after the resurrection.

Now, please show me where we are exhorted to imitate God's physicality.

Do you see how the PHYSICAL is superseded by the SPIRITUAL???

I've never said we are exhorted to imitate God physically. I'm simply saying that we are made in his image and likeness both physically and spiritually. We will all be resurrected and receive an incorruptible physical body. And you are correct, the challenge for us is to progress and become more like Him spiritually. That doesn't mean that the physical doesn't exist and doesn't serve a purpose.

 

[Polaris]

It would seem pointless... unless God became man.

If living in a spirit-only state is the pinnicle of existance then God creating man as a physical being is pointless, even if God becomes man. Why would God create His children in such a way as to deprive them of existance in the "perfect" spirit-only state?

Is the Mormon "eternal mother" goddess a physical being as well?
Where is this "Father" of yours?
Would it be possible to see God, Jesus and the eternal mother if one knew where to look?

We believe that God is indeed our Father, and it only makes sense that we also have a Mother, and if God's a physical being than certainly our Mother would be too. As physical beings yes it would be possible for us to see them.

 

[Squirt]

Fair enough, but every single one of those passages can be read allegorically.

Sure they can be, but why should they be? What is wrong with the straightforward meaning of the words as they stand? When a literal interpretation doesn't make sense, allegory is probably intended, but there is not one of these examples that doesn't make perfect sense from a literal perspective. If they are not intended to be interpreted literally, why don't you attempt to explain how each one should be interpreted. That should be really interesting!

People say my daughter is my spitting image (just yesterday by my wife). We look NOTHING alike, but our character and mischievousness are near identical. She has my spirit, but not my looks.

Personally, in my entire life, I have never heard the phrase "spitting image" used to refer to personality traits. But I wasn't around to hear your wife's statement, so I guess there's always a first time. (I'm assuming she was complimenting your daughter, wasn't she? )

Now, if Jesus was made in God's image and I am made in God's image and You are made in God's image and that image is PHYSICAL, then why don't we look alike? Why don't we even look like brothers? Are you suggesting that someone born with no arms or legs is NOT in God's image? How about the baby with spina bifida? What about God gets old like the rest of us? Did God start out as an infant?

We all look like human beings, don't we? We are all created in the imagine of the human form.

Now, please show me where we are exhorted to imitate God's physicality. Look at this scripture:

Mark 7:14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") 20 He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' " NIV

Do you see how the PHYSICAL is superseded by the SPIRITUAL???

That's all very nice, but none of us Latter-day Saints has ever said that we are not exhorted to emulate God's spiritual qualities. When Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect," He was commanding us to strive to attain spiritual -- not physical -- perfection.

 

[Quiddity]

If living in a spirit-only state is the pinnicle of existance then God creating man as a physical being is pointless, even if God becomes man. Why would God create His children in such a way as to deprive them of existance in the "perfect" spirit-only state?

Catholic theology doesn't teach that the ultimate end is "spirit-only". We embrace both physical and spiritual because "it is good". Recommend post#56 for more detail.

 

[Squirt]

LDS have a momma too. I didn't know that. Love it when I learn something new.:jiggy:

Well use your good common sense, Victor. How many fathers do you know of who became fathers without there also being a mother?

 

[Polaris]

Catholic theology doesn't teach that the ultimate end is "spirit-only". We embrace both physical and spiritual because "it is good". Recommend post#56 for more detail.

But don't you teach/believe that God is a nonphysical being (i.e. spirit-only)? If so wouldn't that be the ultimate form of existance -- the same form as God?

 

[Quiddity]

How many fathers do you know of who became fathers without there also being a mother?

None. But why would I hold God to this as well?
Then you get into "then who created the Mother?" type of endless questions. Which quite frankly I never understood of LDS theology.

 

[Quiddity]

But don't you teach/believe that God is a nonphysical being (i.e. spirit-only)? If so wouldn't that be the ultimate form of existance -- the same form as God?

It would be IF God stayed as spirit only, as Scott pointed out. But He didn't. He became the GODMAN.

 

[Squirt]

It would be IF God stayed as spirit only, as Scott pointed out. But He didn't. He became the GODMAN.

So are you talking about God the Father, Victor, or His Son?

 

[Quiddity]

So are you talking about God the Father, Victor, or His Son?

Both...It's the same nature in three persons.

 

[Polaris]

It would be IF God stayed as spirit only, as Scott pointed out. But He didn't. He became the GODMAN.

So you believe that God is now a physical being? So instead of us becoming more like our Father he has become like us? Interesting. So what's the advantage of having a body if God didn't need one to be God before?

 

[Quiddity]

So you believe that God is now a physical being? So instead of us becoming more like our Father he has become like us? Interesting. So what's the advantage of having a body if God didn't need one to be God before?

Advantage? It was more of a stepdown then an advantage. That is part of why it's mind blowing to me. God come down to our level?

 

[Squirt]

Both...It's the same nature in three persons.

Okay, well it looks like we're going off topic here, but maybe it's inevitable. So when Jesus was here on Earth as a corporeal being, was His Father still in Heaven? He (Jesus) always referred to Him (His Father) as being in Heaven, so I think the question is an important one.

 

[Squirt]

Advantage? It was more of a stepdown then an advantage. That is part of why it's mind blowing to me. God come down to our level?

So after Jesus ascended to Heaven (in bodily form, if we can trust the scriptures on this point), did He get rid of His body, or does He still have it? I'm going to go with the premise that He still has it, since Stephen reportedly saw Him standing on the right hand of His Father. No, wait a minute... That can't be right. That would require two distinct persons, unless He was somehow able to stand on His own right side. You've got to help me out here. I'm confused.

 

[Squirt]

Advantage? It was more of a stepdown then an advantage. That is part of why it's mind blowing to me. God come down to our level?

Well Victor, are you now saying that you don't believe that God came down as man?

 

[Quiddity]

Okay, well it looks like we're going off topic here, but maybe it's inevitable. So when Jesus was here on Earth as a corporeal being, was His Father still in Heaven? He (Jesus) always referred to Him (His Father) as being in Heaven, so I think the question is an important one.

I knew this was coming.
We are still talking about physical and spiritual but applying it strictly to God. We are still on topic.
Do you believe God is omnipresent?
God is not limited to a certain space. God fills the heavens and the earth. Every person throughout the world is always in the presence of God. (Psalm 139:7-12)

I have absolutely no idea how He does this.

 

[Quiddity]

Well Victor, are you now saying that you don't believe that God came down as man?

Sorry Squirt, I don't know how you concluded that from my post. God did indeed come down as man.

 

[Squirt]

I knew this was coming.
We are still talking about physical and spiritual but applying it strictly to God. We are still on topic.
Do you believe God is omnipresent?
God is not limited to a certain space. God fills the heavens and the earth. Every person throughout the world is always in the presence of God. (Psalm 139:7-12)

I have absolutely no idea how He does this.

Well, I'm excited to be able to tell you.

Picture a sheet of paper containing sixteen holes, each the diameter of a needle. How many needles would be required to simultaneously fit through all sixteen holes? Some would say, "sixteen," but I'm sure you didn't. You figured it out, didn't you? The answer is "one." If the paper is folded in such a way that all sixteen holes are aligned, a single needle can slip nicely through all of them at once.

Comparing God to this needle, we Latter-day Saints would say that his power is everywhere at once even though He is physically in Heaven. (I don't recall Jesus praying to "Our Father, who art not in Heaven but everywhere.") God is functionally omnipresent even though He is not ontologically omnipresent. In other words, He has the ability to appear omnipresent if He wishes, but does not exist in a perpetual state of omnipresence.

By the way, how would you define "spirit" anyway? Net Doc wasn't able to do so. I'm hoping you are.