Actually, it is not a high probability that the Jews cared what Muhammad was saying. The Jews, during that time, were a small minority, who were, for the most part, without a home. However, we do see Muhammad, at least at the beginning, were decent to the Jews. The Jews actually saw more favor then than they had in a long time. Rarely did the Jews live with the freedom that they did under, at least the first part of Muhammad's rule. With the way in which they were treated, there is little reason to assume that they had a problem with what Muhammad was saying. The Jews had a long history with the Christians, and the Christian claim that Jesus was the Messiah. Never do we see the Jews claiming responsibility for the death of Jesus even then. The idea that the Jews killed Jesus was a Christian invention. It is then more likely to assume that Muhammad got his idea from the Christian stories circulating about the Jews killing Jesus. The fact that it even states anything about the Jews killing Jesus would suggest some Christian influences there. Again though, there is little evidence, if any, that the Jews claimed responsibility for the death of Jesus. There was no reason to, as they had nothing to do with the death of Jesus.
Could you include sources, please? The only reason I don’t include links for reading is because I need more than 15 posts.
In regards to the death of Jesus, we are told that they simply believed, as it looked that way, that they killed Jesus. We are then under the assumption that Jesus in fact did not die, just appeared so. With the case of the Muslims battle, there is no such appearance. The opponents were slewed. We are just told that it was with the help of God, it was through God that they were slewed. That is the difference
Nah, they are not as different as you make it out to be, or should I say as you would like it to be? The Koran reads:
“they [the Jews] killed him not, nor crucified him, but so
it was made to appear to them [the Jews] . . ."
“It” could refer to “Jesus” or the “crucifixion” or “both”. Because the Koran reads, “So it [the crucifixion or Jesus or both] was made to appear to them,” does not imply that Jesus did not die on the cross. The only difference you highlight between 4.127 and 8.17 is the fact that 8.17 reads: “God slew them.”
"Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but
Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but
Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower."
You miss an important point here. The verses in which 4.127 are included are about faithlessness, not about the crucifixion of Jesus, although the crucifixion of Jesus is always what Christian and Muslim debates emphasize. Instead, Muhammad is emphasizing that they [the Jews] have “ears and do not hear” and “eyes that do not see.” Todd Lawson, in his 2009 book on the crucifixion and the Koran, reads as follows in his introduction:
“The theme being pursued in this section of the Qur’an (and
we will return to this below) is not, it should be stressed and even
repeated, not the life, suffering and death of Jesus. Rather the main
topic here is ‘faithlessness’ in Arabic kufr, a subject much more
native to the Qur’anic worldview. Those people who are burdened
with this spiritual disability are referred to throughout the Qur’an
as kāfirūn and they come from a variety of social, religious and
ethnic backgrounds. The Qur’an contrasts this spiritual disease
with īmān (‘faithfulness, fidelity’
![Wink ;) ;)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
and islām (‘commitment and
submission to the divine law’
![Wink ;) ;)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
. As in the case of kufr, those who
are blessed with faith also come from a variety of social, linguistic
and religious backgrounds. It is a universal problem. The Qur’an
is interested in describing traits and proclivities that are universally
human, and not interested in the slightest in demonizing this
or that group.17
The Qur’an, in the verses leading up to the ‘crucifixion verse’,
says that an example of faithlessness may be found in the history
of the Jews when they (1) ‘killed their prophets without justification’,
(2) slandered Mary, the mother of Jesus, defaming her
virtue, and (3) boasted that they had killed the Messiah. Note that
their deeds are being singled out here as examples of kufr – for
boasting that they could controvert the Will of God. They are not
being castigated for having killed him. The verses run as follows,
in the translation of Muh.ammad Asad:18
AND SO, [WE PUNISHED THEM] FOR THE BREAKING OF THEIR
PLEDGE, AND THEIR REFUSAL TO ACKNOWLEDGE GOD’S MESSAGES,
AND THEIR SLAYING OF PROPHETS AGAINST ALL RIGHT, AND THEIR
BOAST, ‘OUR HEARTS ARE ALREADY FULL OF KNOWLEDGE’ – NAY,
BUT GOD HAS SEALED THEIR HEARTS IN RESULT OF THEIR DENIAL
OF THE TRUTH, AND [NOW] THEY BELIEVE IN BUT FEW THINGS –;
AND FOR THEIR REFUSAL TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH, AND THE
AWESOME CALUMNY WHICH THEY UTTER AGAINST MARY, AND
THEIR BOAST, ‘BEHOLD, WE HAVE SLAIN THE CHRIST JESUS, SON
OF MARY, [WHO CLAIMED TO BE] AN APOSTLE OF GOD!’ HOWEVER,
THEY DID NOT SLAY HIM, AND NEITHER DID THEY CRUCIFY HIM, BUT
IT ONLY SEEMED TO THEM [AS IF IT HAD BEEN] SO; AND, VERILY,
THOSE WHO HOLD CONFLICTING VIEWS THEREON ARE INDEED CONFUSED,
HAVING NO [REAL] KNOWLEDGE THEREOF, AND FOLLOWING
MERE CONJECTURE. FOR, OF A CERTAINTY, THEY DID NOT SLAY
HIM: NAY, GOD EXALTED HIM UNTO HIMSELF – AND GOD IS INDEED
ALMIGHTY, WISE. (Q. 4:155–8)
Thus the Qur’an speaks of the crucifixion one time, and even
in this single instance it is in the nature of parenthesis. It is not
a topic central to the Qur’an. It is, however, a topic central to
Muslim–Christian relations over the centuries. And over these
centuries, since this verse was revealed in Medina, sometime
between 622 and 632 CE, it has been interpreted by many Muslims
and Christians as denying the crucifixion of Jesus.”
17 W. Björkman, ‘Kāfi r’, EI², vol. 4, p. 407.
18 The Message of the Qur’ān Translated and Explained by Muh.ammad Asad
(Gibraltar: Dar al-Andalus, 1980).
Therefore, just because “God slew Him” is not included in 4.127 doesn’t really mean anything, because one can imply that since the the Jews mentioned have a “spiritual disability,” then they couldn’t comprehend that “God slew Him” and that it was a part of the divine plan.
So you have faith in what one person says. That is alright. However, we have done much research since the 1920's, and know much more about what most likely happened. For me, I see no authority of Baha'u'llah's interpretation, and I see no reason to give them much credence on their own, unless backed up. However, seeing that we have moved by leaps and bounds in the scholarly work on the subject since, I see little reason to give credence over what we know now.
Don’t interpret that I’m saying Baha’u’llah or Abdul-Baha agree with what I said in point one. I’m just constructing my understand of the history surrounding the crucifixion. What I’m saying about the Baha’i faith is specifically in regard to interpreting 4.127, for Abdul-Baha said: “In regard to the verse, which is revealed in the Koran, that His Highness, Christ, was not killed and was not crucified, by this is meant the Reality of Christ. Although they crucified this elemental body, yet the merciful reality and the heavenly existence remain eternal and undying, and it was protected from the obsession and persecution of the enemies, for Christ is Eternal and Everlasting. How can he die? This death and crucifixion was imposed on the physical body of Christ, and not upon the Spirit of Christ.“ This interpretation often goes overlooked in debates, and, since Todd Lawson has observed that the main point surrounding this verse is faithlessness, one can see the possibility in this interpretation of 4.127 being true. Since 1920, the Muslim and Christian interpretation of 4.17 has not progressed. People are still saying it could mean Jesus didn’t die, somebody else was substituted, or that Jesus died.