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Was Jesus crucified i.e nailed on a cross or hanged on a tree? Please Answer!

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by Yoana, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Yoana

    Yoana New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I'm a Syrian Orthodox Christian, I know there is a God. However, I need to find the answer to this question.
    In the bible it Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree."
    Now at first I thought the cross is made out of the tree essence, it's just another way of saying it. Then I was reading the Talmud one day and it said the same thing. What do I believe? The crucifixion on the cross and then contradicts the Talmud or believe what is said about the crucifixion in the book of Acts and the Talmud which then contradicts the gospels.
    Someone correct and elaborate please............

    Thank you.
     
  2. Pegg

    Pegg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,632
    Hi,
    the answer is in the original words used by the gospel writers.

    The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau·ros′. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale.
    Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·ros′], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

    The other word used in the gosples is xy′lon (at Acts 5:30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom YOU slew, hanging him upon a stake/xy'lon)
    which means a pale of wood.
    A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell and Scott, defines xy′lon this as meaning: “Wood cut and ready for use, firewood, timber, etc. . . . piece of wood, log, beam, post . . . cudgel, club . . . stake on which criminals were impaled . . . of live wood, tree.”

    So Jesus didnt die on a cross as is commonly believed, but rather on an upright pole or 'tree' ... a xylon or stauros according to the bible writers.

    the cross stems from the influence of Rome and pagan religion on christianity in later centuries.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  3. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

    Messages:
    9,822
    What Pegg says is the Jehovah Witnesses' opinion on the subject. It's fine, and I won't argue with it as we are in a directory. I just want to point that it is not a mainstream position.



    Most would claim that it is a cross. This has been the position since the very early church. The cross is also the most likely candidate from a historical position. Looking at Roman crucifixion, the method was by using a cross. Usually, from what we can gather from the evidence, the upright beam would be permanently set up outside the city (at least in the case of Jerusalem). The cross beam was the part that would be carried from the city to the place of execution. The reason is quite simple. The upright beam simply would have been too heavy to carry.

    Looking to the Greek, the term, stauros, actually can and does refer to a cross. Now, it does have different meanings, but even when used to refer to an upright pole, it often also included a cross-beam. And we get that in various other writings from that time.

    Now, the statement that Jesus was crucified upon a tree is actually more of a symbolic idea. The terminology here is actually a throwback to Deuteronomy.
     
  4. Harmonious

    Harmonious Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,038
    Religion:
    Orthodox Jew
    Not for nothing, but... Where would you have found this in the Talmud? And more to the point, why would you be looking for information about Jesus in the Talmud?
     
  5. Pegg

    Pegg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,632
    and that is a good point

    Jesus was tried under jewish law and put to death according to Jewish customs.

    Deuteronomy 21:22 “And in case there comes to be in a man a sin deserving the sentence of death, and he has been put to death, and you have hung him upon a stake, 23 his dead body should not stay all night on the stake; but you should by all means bury him on that day, because something accursed of God is the one hung up; and you must not defile your soil, which Jehovah your God is giving you as an inheritance

    This also explains why the legs of those being executed were broken...the bodies had to be removed before sunset in keeping with this law. Breaking the legs would hasten the death so that the body could be removed. This wasnt a roman style of execution at all...they kept bodies hanging for however long they wanted to. But the jews had to take the body down before it got dark.

    So if Jesus was hung according to jewish law, then it stands to reason that he would have been hung according to the custom of the jews, not the romans.
     
    oldbadger likes this.
  6. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

    Messages:
    9,822
    Since this is a directory, I won't want to argue, or debate, as that is not the purpose of this directory. So, what I'm suggesting, if you are up for it, for a new thread in the debate section, which deals with this topic. If you are interested, I can make a new thread.
     
  7. Harmonious

    Harmonious Well-Known Member

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    2,038
    Religion:
    Orthodox Jew
    I would like to see that thread.
     
  8. Pegg

    Pegg Well-Known Member

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    12,632
    yep ok, that would be good
     
  9. Breathe

    Breathe Mostly taking a break

    Messages:
    17,123
    Religion:
    Complicated but fairly consistent
    I was told by someone that the "crucified on a tree" verse was basically a way of expressing frustration with it. Like the same way someone may say "Get rid of that damn weed!" about a plant or flower they didn't like.

    Was I told wrong, or is that just another possible interpretation?
     
  10. Yoana

    Yoana New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I don't know it's in there. I was reading it because I was studying stuff about Judiasm so then I ended up reading the Talmud. I guess reading it to expand my knowledge regarding such issues.
     
  11. Harmonious

    Harmonious Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,038
    Religion:
    Orthodox Jew
    Do you know Aramaic? Which volume of the Talmud, page number, and side of the page (a or b) were you reading?
     
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