Was Jesus a hard worker?

[fallingblood]

This came up in a different thread, and I just couldn't help but find it curious.

Bruce Chilton has an idea that Jesus enjoyed dinner parties, in which either his family would host (and possibly one of the reasons they seem opposed to him at first), as well as dining at other's places. Basically then, he was able to bypass the hard work of farming and the like, and be supported by others.

So, was Jesus a hard worker, or a slacker? Or something else?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

He was a drifter and a beggar of sorts.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Wow. That's wild.

Are you convinced by Chilton?

 

[Student of X]

Walking a mystical path is always hard work, but it's not work that most modern folks know much about.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The biggest flaw in Chilton's theory is that if Jesus was able to associate in this way with the wealthy, why did his friends not save him from crucifixion?

I agree that wealthier people took him into their homes for meals, but he was the entertainment, not a client or friend.

 

[fallingblood]

Wow. That's wild.

Are you convinced by Chilton?

Not really. I like Chilton, but I wasn't too impressed.

However, I don't think Jesus was an exceptionally hard worker in the sense of physical labor (and with this I'm just talking about the time of his ministry). I do think he enjoyed some of the benefits though. Such as being hosted by others (and I think this would go back to the Hebrew idea of hospitality).

I think others noticed him enjoying the benefits as well, and that was why the polemic of Jesus being a glutton and drunkard was created. And I wouldn't be surprised if he got used to it to a point. But I don't think he took advantage of it, nor went overboard. And I would assume it wasn't an all the time thing, or even lavish dinner parties. But more of Jesus being asked to join a modest meal.

But I think Chilton takes it to the next level, and oversteps what we actually have.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Meier also thinks that Jesus was somewhat of a bon vivant. But who knows I personally think he was no stranger to a hard days work. He seems very familiar with rural life.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Not really. I like Chilton, but I wasn't too impressed.

However, I don't think Jesus was an exceptionally hard worker in the sense of physical labor (and with this I'm just talking about the time of his ministry). I do think he enjoyed some of the benefits though. Such as being hosted by others (and I think this would go back to the Hebrew idea of hospitality).

I think others noticed him enjoying the benefits as well, and that was why the polemic of Jesus being a glutton and drunkard was created. And I wouldn't be surprised if he got used to it to a point. But I don't think he took advantage of it, nor went overboard. And I would assume it wasn't an all the time thing, or even lavish dinner parties. But more of Jesus being asked to join a modest meal.

But I think Chilton takes it to the next level, and oversteps what we actually have.

I'm thinking of the tax collectors, who I would expect to be more cognizant of Roman customs. Perhaps Jesus dined in luxury with them.

But I've thought for a while that the type of support described in the Gospels better describes the setting in life of the later churches (and their patrons) than the Judaean countryside, or even Jerusalem.

 

[outhouse]

Im under the impression he was a dirt poor below poverty hand worker, these types were not home owners and lived a life below that of a peasant.

I can see him being a beggar using his teaching healing skills for handouts, but mainly if you have and carry nothing, the tax collectors had nothing to tax you for abd could collect nothing. You also had no property to take away for non payment of taxes.

Im sure jesus message included anti tax messages in as much as this would have made him very popular in the poor vilages of Galilee. there is a resaon he is sadi to have preached to all tax collectors and made them friends and got them to give money back. I also feel the hellenized authors removed any and all anti roman views in their gospels

 

[outhouse]

also

he takes lessons from John who eats grasshoppers and honey WTH???


Another thing we need to look at is Galilee in that time. Most people were dirt poor and there was no real middle class. survival was not easy nor taken for granted.

A common mistake is that there was extra work in the area due to Tiberias and Sepphoris being built while jesus would have been a adult. This actually added a extra burden on the local populations as if quotas were not met, they would take your farm. That and the more you made, the more they taxed. My personal point, is that if life was so good, why did he give up everything to beg for meals?? Its because he had nothing to loose at that point, it was a natural progression in is life, and he probably did live a better life begging with his word skills then being a handworker

 

[SaintAugustine]

Walking a mystical path is always hard work, but it's not work that most modern folks know much about.

well, said...

 

[fallingblood]

I'm thinking of the tax collectors, who I would expect to be more cognizant of Roman customs. Perhaps Jesus dined in luxury with them.

But I've thought for a while that the type of support described in the Gospels better describes the setting in life of the later churches (and their patrons) than the Judaean countryside, or even Jerusalem.

I could see some retrojection there. The thing that sticks out to me though is that Jesus was called a drunkard and glutton.

I think that relates some early idea. Or at least an early perception of Jesus. Maybe it was because he dined with tax collectors. But I think at the same time, some would have accepted him in. It may not have been a very often thing, and probably was very small, but I think there would have been at least some sort of hospitality in that manner.

But I can also see the Gospel writers retrojecting their experience as well onto Jesus.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I could see some retrojection there. The thing that sticks out to me though is that Jesus was called a drunkard and glutton.

I think that relates some early idea. Or at least an early perception of Jesus. Maybe it was because he dined with tax collectors. But I think at the same time, some would have accepted him in. It may not have been a very often thing, and probably was very small, but I think there would have been at least some sort of hospitality in that manner.

But I can also see the Gospel writers retrojecting their experience as well onto Jesus.

But that rhetoric can be associated with later ideals, too. By later, I mean later people who embodied Roman philosophical ideals that cannot be attributed to the contexts associated with the historical Jesus.

That is to say - being a drunk and a glutton was precisely the opposite behavior of the self-control deified by Stoic / Cynic / Platonic / and even neo-Pythagorean philosophies.

Just a thought: polemic against Jesus is not exclusive to him being called a drunk and glutton.

 

[ChristineES]

Since Jesus was a carpenter until He was 30 years old, I would say yes. Historians say He probably worked with stone, too. He only spent about 3 years in His ministry before He died.

 

[Quagmire]

Since Jesus was a carpenter until He was 30 years old, I would say yes. Historians say He probably worked with stone, too. He only spent about 3 years in His ministry before He died.

I was going to say that before you beat me to it.

And being a carpenter in those days must have been a pretty demanding occupation.

Also: he spent his ministry walking (except for that one time with the donkey) everywhere and sleeping on the ground most of the time. Doesn't sound like someone who was used to living a pampered lifestyle.

If we go by the Passion account, Just carrying the crucifix all that way after everything he'd been through...