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Was it any use for jesus to die for sins?
- Thread starter Remté
- Start date
We are responsible for our own wrongdoings, just as Jesus, as a mere human, was for his.
Earthling
David Henson
It wasn't supposed to change immediately. It wasn't possible to allow for personal responsibility when it came to the ransom sacrifice. None of us could pay that, but that doesn't negate personal responsibility when it comes to our own part, that is, what we can do.
Remté
Active Member
What wasn't supposed to change immediately? What do you mean wasn't possible to allow for personal responsibility when it came to the ransom sacrifice?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's an imaginary solution to an imaginary condition.
I suppose if there's any change , its people's expectations.
Earthling
David Henson
It.
You are familiar with the significance of the soul / blood / life in the Bible? Eye for eye, soul for soul? The soul is the life of any breathing creature. It is contained in the blood. So the blood is the soul, or the life of any breathing creature. And sacred, meaning it belongs to God.
So . . . if someone was found murdered outside of some town in ancient Israel and no one knew who was responsible then the nearest town was "blood guilty." They had to take a bull and sacrifice it, spilling it's blood in payment for the innocent man's blood that was spilled.
Adam's blood was spilled, and for justice to be served the blood of that one was difficult to match, because he was created without sin. All men who followed him were under the effects of that sin. Except Jesus. Jesus, like Adam, had been perfect and without sin. He paid what we could not.
Remté
Active Member
What's the imaginary condition?
Remté
Active Member
But Adam did sin.
Remté
Active Member
I think they could have believed just as well. This is just extra really.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Not sure of your logic. We all sin, even those closest to Jesus.
What changes is that there is forgiveness for sin when we
remain within the will of God.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Unexpectedly for whom? Jesus made it clear he came to give his life
for his people. The prophet Daniel said that the Messiah will be "cut off"
for his people. Isaiah showed the suffering, imprisonment and death of
the Messiah. King David spoke of the Messiah's suffering on the cross.
Remté
Active Member
What does that have to do with jesus? Surely people were forgiven before jesus just as well?
Earthling
David Henson
Yes. Of course. Which caused him to die when he didn't have to.
Augustus
…
His followers before the narrative came to be rewritten with the benefit of hindsight.
Remté
Active Member
Oh please, everyone was crucified in those days.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
In the Old Testament the forgiveness was through the blood of the lamb.
This perfect, unblemished male lamb was taken into the household for
three or four days (till people bonded with it)
Then it was slain and its blood daubed upon the lintel. This was to
signify that the 'death angel' was to pass over it.
And the lamb was to be eaten whole - not just the goodly portions.
This is the symbol of Jesus, the lamb of God, "slain from the foundation
of the world." He offered himself "once and for all."
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
King David is the symbol of the rejected and reigning king.
He foresaw the suffering of the Messiah - how they pierced
his hands and his feet, he could see all his bones sticking
out, his tongue cleaved to his mouth - but all they gave him
was vinegar and gall. "My God, my God, why have you
forsaken me?" he cried.
Not sure if crucifixion was around in the bronze age, not
that it makes and different to the point.
Remté
Active Member
That's disgusting.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
From what point of view? A 21st Century Western one?
Those societies would not have believed what we have
become - read my profile below.