Was a year really a year?

[Big_TJ]

JWs

Do you think a year back in Adam's time was similar in length to what we understand a year to be now? I am asking because something seems odd to me.

Thanks!

 

[Big_TJ]

JWs

Do you think a year back in Adam's time was similar in length to what we understand a year to be now? I am asking because something seems odd to me.

Thanks!

No takers?

 

[Pegg]

JWs

Do you think a year back in Adam's time was similar in length to what we understand a year to be now? I am asking because something seems odd to me.

Thanks!

what seems odd to you Big_TJ? Let me have it

 

[Big_TJ]

Ok; here is what's odd. If (assumingly) a year today is the same as a year back in Adam's time, why did men not fathering children until they were in their hundreds? Especially given that the scriptures suggested that they were to populate the world, I see that as odd. Scientist has suggested/showed that male and female as young as 13 years are equipped to have children (I am not suggesting pedophile here :no, but if the male could father offspring even in their 20s, why wait until they are over 100 to even start?

Another question seems to be the variance between when certain guys start fathering children - some in their 60s and some in their 100s. What do you think may account for those variance when it seems the only thing they should be doing is praising God and multiplying ?

 

[psychoslice]

I think these questions arise when we take the stories in the bible literally, which I don't, so there is no confusion in my way of looking at the stories.

 

[Big_TJ]

I think these questions arise when we take the stories in the bible literally, which I don't, so there is no confusion in my way of looking at the stories.

Fantastic! But in case you took it literal (which I think JWs do), what do you think could possibly explain this (the questions)?

 

[Pegg]

Ok; here is what's odd. If (assumingly) a year today is the same as a year back in Adam's time, why did men not fathering children until they were in their hundreds? Especially given that the scriptures suggested that they were to populate the world, I see that as odd. Scientist has suggested/showed that male and female as young as 13 years are equipped to have children (I am not suggesting pedophile here :no, but if the male could father offspring even in their 20s, why wait until they are over 100 to even start?

thats a good question but not one that the bible gives a direct answer to...so i can only speculate on it. What we do know is that the 'times and seasons' were linked to the movement of the sun and moon....so we can be sure that the caluclation of time was no different back then to today.
Gene 1:14*And God went on to say: “Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night; and they must serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years.
A day will always be the length of time it take for the sun to rise or fall each day. A year would have been the same as today....the four seasons divide the year into four seasons.

But with regard to human reproduction back then, i can't really tell you why they waited so long. Perhaps they didnt 'wait', maybe they just didnt all get married as young as we do. When you consider that they had such long lifespans, why would you need to rush into marriage?

Another question seems to be the variance between when certain guys start fathering children - some in their 60s and some in their 100s. What do you think may account for those variance when it seems the only thing they should be doing is praising God and multiplying ?

God doesnt tell mankind when they should have children and how many...he leaves that decision to us to make the decision. Maybe the men back then were more content then they are today???

But it does raise a good question and maybe in the future we'll have more information. But I did have one thought....reproduction in the animal world is very much linked to the lifespan of an animal. So for example, a mouse lives only 3-5 years, and they can begin reproducing within a year of being born. But an elephant who lives for 80 odd years doesnt begin reproducing until its over 10years of age.

So perhaps mankind are only reproducing at such young ages today because our lifespan is so short....and that could explain why the birthing process is not an easy one for women (many dying as a result).... we could be having kids at much younger ages then our bodies can handle. It could be that in the days before the flood, they were having kids at the right age for a human who should have had an everlasting lifespan.

 

[psychoslice]

Fantastic! But in case you took it literal (which I think JWs do), what do you think could possibly explain this (the questions)?

In truth there is no such things as a year or time, its simply a measurement that is agreed on, so it doesn't matter if a year was 100 years, its still just a measurement that means nothing except to those who agreed on the measurement.

 

[Marco19]

Hi Pegg,

Is it incorrect that the time before Noah was different after the flood issue?
here I mean everything including time & nature.

 

[Pegg]

Hi Pegg,

Is it incorrect that the time before Noah was different after him and the flood issue?
here I mean everything including time & nature.

well as i mentioned above, i dont think we can say that 'time' changed because they Isrealites were still using the same measurements for time that God stated in the creation account.

So time will always be related to the movement of the planets around our sun in the solar system.

But Nature certainly changed. Before the flood, the bible says there was a water canopy surrounding the earth. This water was released during the flood and all that water is now on the earth instead of above it.

This would have drastically changed our atmosphere which would be affecting the weather cycles ...it also created a much larger ocean.

 

[Marco19]

well as i mentioned above, i dont think we can say that 'time' changed because they Isrealites were still using the same measurements for time that God stated in the creation account.

So time will always be related to the movement of the planets around our sun in the solar system.

But Nature certainly changed. Before the flood, the bible says there was a water canopy surrounding the earth. This water was released during the flood and all that water is now on the earth instead of above it.

This would have drastically changed our atmosphere which would be affecting the weather cycles ...it also created a much larger ocean.

So you think this is the fact why humans are no longer living as the Bible mentions for many centuries? or it is an additional punishment from the creator?

 

[Pegg]

So you think this is the fact why humans are no longer living as the Bible mentions for many centuries? or it is an additional punishment from the creator?

we have been getting further and further away from the perfect start God gave mankind.... as we move further away, sickness becomes more evident.

So i dont think its further punishment. They lived in a perfect environment, they did not have the burning sun on them the way we do, their diet was different, they only ate fruit and veges (vegetarians are much healther and look younger then meat eaters)...we eat meat which we are not really designed for. We could cite many differences between us and them, but I think the simplest reason I can cite is that we are getting further away from perfection.

 

[Marco19]

they only ate fruit and veges

If this is the case, why Jesus ate meat?

 

[Pegg]

If this is the case, why Jesus ate meat?

Jesus ate meat because its not forbidden for us to eat meat, God gave Noah permission to do so after he came out of the Ark. So from that point, mankind have been eating meat. But that doesnt mean it is healthy or natural for us to do so.

Before the flood they didnt eat meat...only vegetables which may have also contributed to their long healthy lives.

 

[Marco19]

Sorry, it seems that i didn't clarify my point.
What wanted to say is that Jesus knew about this unhealthy habit, so he could restore the old and correct diet, but He didn't. Well, I wonder why?

You may say that it won't restore the old mode since everything after flood has changed, but in this case, don't you think it deserve specially nowadays we hear new desease every period and most are directly or indirectly related to this issue?

 

[Pegg]

Sorry, it seems that i didn't clarify my point.
What wanted to say is that Jesus knew about this unhealthy habit, so he could restore the old and correct diet, but He didn't. Well, I wonder why?

You may say that it won't restore the old mode since everything after flood has changed, but in this case, don't you think it deserve specially nowadays we hear new desease every period and most are directly or indirectly related to this issue?

We could also ask why God permitted Noah to eat meat in the first place. Thats the more pertinent question because obviously God saw that there would be a need for this. If Noah wasnt given such permission, what would he have eaten after coming out of the ark? Crops take time to grow.

Perhaps God saw the way man would ruin the lands, he likely knew that the changed environment would make it difficult to produce lots of food. Animals are fairly easy to farm and the meat goes much further. and while meat can cause us to get ill in the long term, it also nourishes us and keeps us alive.

 

[Marco19]

Thanks Pegg,

Out of curiosity, I wonder how do you understand the following:
According to your faith, Noah's time, angels incarnated in a human flesh and married with human beings. The flood was a cleansing of the sins & giving a new start.

Ok, my question is: Is it fair to complain/punish humans about sins which are out of their control? how they will know, for instance, that this or that body belonged to an angel (in this case apostate angels)?

- Another thing, I wonder, how the creator punished the angels? except the idea of not letting them to incarnate/manifest after the flood?

- Does Satan become more powerful or remained the same after the flood?

Enough questions, Thank you

 

[Pegg]

Thanks Pegg,

Out of curiosity, I wonder how do you understand the following:
According to your faith, Noah's time, angels incarnated in a human flesh and married with human beings. The flood was a cleansing of the sins & giving a new start.

Ok, my question is: Is it fair to complain/punish humans about sins which are out of their control? how they will know, for instance, that this or that body belonged to an angel (in this case apostate angels)?

its good to first get an idea of the information contained in the bible about the time of Noah becuase it does explain what it was like and why God took such drastic action.

'You can read the account in Genesis 6: 4*The Neph′i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame.
5*Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. 6*And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart. 7*So Jehovah said: “I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret that I have made them.” 8*But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah....13*After that God said to Noah: “The end of all flesh has come before me, because the earth is full of violence as a result of them; and here I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth.



from what we read above, it was the badness 'of man' that became abundant in the earth. The angels caused their own trouble, but the people too were also causing trouble.
And when you consider that in those times, fathers would need to give their consent for their daughters to marry, then we must ask why these fathers were consenting for their daughters to marry rebellious angels. If the people were still good at heart, surely they would not have wanted their daughters to be married to these materialised spirits.

- Another thing, I wonder, how the creator punished the angels? except the idea of not letting them to incarnate/manifest after the flood?

- Does Satan become more powerful or remained the same after the flood?

Enough questions, Thank you

the bible also answers this question

Jude 6 *And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day


“God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tartarus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.” 2*Peter 2:4.

This tartarus is not a particular location but rather a prisonlike, abased condition that limits their activity. They can no longer materialize into human form which means their powers/ability has been restricted. So they are not as powerful as they once were, but they are still more powerful then humans and they still exert influence over the minds of mankind...they can also appear in spirit form and they do still do this when pretending to be spirits of dead people.

Its good to know that they will eventually be destroyed, and their time is running out according to scripture. Rev 20:10*And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever