waitasec vs. muhammad_isa

[waitasec]

ok i think this is where it got started...

You're a very cynical, negative person aren't you..
What are you afraid of?

You may say 'nothing', but this would be dishonest, imo .. everybody's afraid of something .. I know I am

no i'm just sick and tired of people who make uninformed decisions based on an erroneous belief...it's time for humanity to move forward...

i'm afraid of my freedoms being taken away...

That's very reasonable .. I don't blame you!
Separating fact from fiction is the best way of securing freedom & justice .. claiming that there is no Divinity does not achieve this, it just gives satan more power.

..and on the subject of freedom .. giving people the freedom to commit inequities and corruption, usually of a sexual or financial nature, does not secure fredom & justice for a society.
Every society needs some kind of law .. secular law (which has no moral core), is for disbelievers .. God's law is for believers.
We will all see whether satan's plans are superior to God's .. eventually

but how would 2 consenting adults, who are of the same sex who want to share the same liberties as married couples, going to make society insecure?

Deviation from topic .. but it's bound to make a difference, surely? The question is whether the change threatens the well-being of society and consequently individuals..

If you want to continue with this topic, I think a new thread is required..

 

[waitasec]

i think that a society which takes away rights from individuals is perpetuating an insecure society as it is upholding a double standard the the very people that make up that society.

if one can prove that same sex couples are a detriment to society i have nothing to say...
but to use bias and bigotry as proof doesn't fly in my book..

 

[muhammad_isa]

..if one can prove that same sex couples are a detriment to society i have nothing to say...
but to use bias and bigotry as proof doesn't fly in my book..

You say "bias & bigotry" because you are unable to perceive the consequences of what God tells us in scriptures is evil .. morally unacceptable .. you disbelieve in what God has revealed.

Why should mankind have made these scriptures up? Sexual desire needs to be contolled whatever sexual persuasion one deems themselves to be. It's quite clear to me, that mankind is weak, and when something is revealed to them (that billions of people take as universal truth) goes against their desires, they deny it

 

[waitasec]

You say "bias & bigotry" because you are unable to perceive the consequences of what God tells us in scriptures is evil .. morally unacceptable .. you disbelieve in what God has revealed.

shouldn't that be something you should be worried about for yourself?
why would your dogmatic principles have any bearing on me
and why would my right to marry someone i love, no matter what sex they are, have any bearing on you as a person...unless of course you are a controlling person?

Why should mankind have made these scriptures up?

for the purpose of unjustified justification...
scripture only supports an opinion...an unsupported opinion.

Sexual desire needs to be contolled whatever sexual persuasion one deems themselves to be

.

not when it comes to consenting adults...

It's quite clear to me, that mankind is weak, and when something is revealed to them (that billions of people take as universal truth) goes against their desires, they deny it

so...what does that have to do with anything...
one should worry about their life before dictating how others should live.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..why would my right to marry someone i love, no matter what sex they are, have any bearing on you as a person...unless of course you are a controlling person?

It's not about my opinions .. it's about what is acceptable in society and what is not.
If the majority pass laws that I don't agree with, I need to have patience, and carry on capaigning for what I believe is just & correct.

You could have asked "why would my right to --put here whatever you want to do-- have any bearing on you.."? I've already explained that society is very important for the individuals well-being, and it's well-established that the breakdown of 'family values' has a detrimental effect.

one should worry about their life before dictating how others should live.

Of course, but if one finds themselves in a position of responsibility ( due to mutual consent ), then one has to carry out their responsibilities to their best.
Magistrates, for example, are required to apply the law, but they are also given some discretion.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..not when it comes to consenting adults...

That's the "stock phrase", but I'm afraid it does matter what 'people get up to' ..

When people murder each other, or commit sexual indecencies, they are often from disturbed backgrounds where their parents (consenting adults) practised deviant behaviour.
You're not a 'child psychologist', I assume?

 

[waitasec]

It's not about my opinions .. it's about what is acceptable in society and what is not.
If the majority pass laws that I don't agree with, I need to have patience, and carry on capaigning for what I believe is just & correct.

by this standard then the segregation of the black community is credible?

You could have asked "why would my right to --put here whatever you want to do-- have any bearing on you.."? I've already explained that society is very important for the individuals well-being, and it's well-established that the breakdown of 'family values' has a detrimental effect.

the opinion that a certain group of people cannot obtain the same rights is detrimental to society because of the needless suffering involved and as it causes strife with in the society...
as the well being of an individual who wants to marry someone of the same sex isn't important...that is a double standard.

Of course, but if one finds themselves in a position of responsibility ( due to mutual consent ), then one has to carry out their responsibilities to their best.
Magistrates, for example, are required to apply the law, but they are also given some discretion.

thats like saying people are not ultimately responsible for their self...
that is ridiculous. where does the individual start and end then?
how can one be responsible for their actions

 

[waitasec]

That's the "stock phrase", but I'm afraid it does matter what 'people get up to' ..

When people murder each other, or commit sexual indecencies, they are often from disturbed backgrounds where their parents (consenting adults) practised deviant behaviour.
You're not a 'child psychologist', I assume?

when someone murders someone else i doubt the person being murdered is consenting to that...
so you are going to try a little harder.

and you are going to have to clarify what "sexual indecencies" are...

 

[muhammad_isa]

..and you are going to have to clarify what "sexual indecencies" are...

I'm obviously wasting my time .. I'm not playing games ..
I was referring to sexual crimes such as rape and the corruption of minors .. and sexually motivated violence.
I suppose you don't believe in psychology, either

 

[waitasec]

I'm obviously wasting my time .. I'm not playing games ..
I was referring to sexual crimes such as rape and the corruption of minors .. and sexually motivated violence.
I suppose you don't believe in psychology, either

you cannot compare consenting sex to rape and murder and sexual violence
these are not the same thing.

 

[waitasec]

something to consider..

Children raised by gay couples show good progress through school

In a study published this month in the journal Demography, Rosenfeld concludes that children being raised by same-sex couples have nearly the same educational achievement as children raised by married heterosexual couples.


Same-sex couples can be effective parents, researchers find - USATODAY.com

Sociologists Stacey and Timothy Biblarz of the University of Southern California, spent five years reviewing 81 studies of one- and two-parent families, including gay, lesbian and heterosexual couples. "No research supports the widely held conviction that the gender of parents matters for child well-being," they conclude.

 

[muhammad_isa]

you cannot compare consenting sex to rape and murder and sexual violence ..

What are you talking about?
I suggest you reread my previous posts..

In particular:-

When people murder each other, or commit sexual indecencies, they are often from disturbed backgrounds where their parents (consenting adults) practised deviant behaviour.
You're not a 'child psychologist', I assume?

You wanted to know what I meant by 'sexual indecencies' ..
In case you ask, by deviant behaviour, I mean deviating from sexual norms .. particularly pornography, spanking, lesbian, gay, prostitution .. etc. etc.
In case you ask, by 'sexual norms', I mean of male/female partners as God decreed for our procreation ..

 

[waitasec]

What are you talking about?
I suggest you reread my previous posts..

In particular:-

When people murder each other, or commit sexual indecencies, they are often from disturbed backgrounds where their parents (consenting adults) practised deviant behaviour.
You're not a 'child psychologist', I assume?

You wanted to know what I meant by 'sexual indecencies' ..
In case you ask, by deviant behaviour, I mean deviating from sexual norms .. particularly pornography, spanking, lesbian, gay, prostitution .. etc. etc.
In case you ask, by 'sexual norms', I mean of male/female partners as God decreed for our procreation ..

and?
are you suggesting that same sex couples perpetuate this?

which in and of itself is ridiculous for obvious reasons...
but in case i need to spell it out for you:

it's the heterosexual couples that bring up messed up children

 

[waitasec]

hello?

 

[waitasec]

is anyone there?

 

[muhammad_isa]

is anyone there?

Yes, I'm here .. but nothing to add though..

 

[waitasec]

Yes, I'm here .. but nothing to add though..

fair enough...
thanks for letting me know.