Voluntary Servitude

[Laika]

Let us suppose for a moment that an adult who was of sound mind and body consented to become a slave and the property of another person.

Do you believe a person can voluntarily become a slave? Do you believe there are any circumstances where it is morally right or rational for a person to do so? Or do you claim that there is some authority to prevent a person from doing so? Does such authority or principle extend to limiting the freedom, rights or choices of adults elsewhere?

 

[Eddi]

No, I don't believe it is possible, as it has been abolished so there is no such category as "slave", so consenting to be a slave would mean nothing, it would be meaningless

There's another related issue I have always wondered about: if slavery was still in existence today, how much would it cost to buy a slave?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Isn't being a Buttler a form of self-inflicted "slave"? They do apply for the job of serving others

 

[Rival]

Yes I think it's possible.

 

[Eddi]

Isn't being a Buttler a form of self-inflicted "slave"? They do apply for the job of serving others

I think it pays quite well

Current Positions

 

[Rival]

I think it pays quite well

Current Positions

If it pays it's not slavery, surely?

 

[Eddi]

If it pays it's not slavery, surely?

Exactly

 

[Laika]

Yes I think it's possible.

I'm sort of curious as voluntary servitude is, like elective dictatorship, one of those nagging loopholes in liberal political theory that everyone assumes could never happen and generally ignores completely (if only out of self-interest). Is there any particular reason you'd believe this is the case? Biblical references maybe?

 

[Rival]

I'm sort of curious as voluntary servitude is, like elective dictatorship, one of those nagging loopholes in liberal political theory that everyone assumes could never happen and generally ignores completely (if only out of self-interest). Is there any particular reason you'd believe this is the case? Biblical references maybe?

Well, yes, the Torah envisions it being possible and has laws for a slave who chooses to waive his right to emancipation after the seventh year and stay with his master and possible family.

I think if you are comfortable, have a good master/mistress, enjoy serving him/her, then you feel your life is sorted, sure. Hard work but rewarding and no taxes.

 

[Laika]

Well, yes, the Torah envisions it being possible and has laws for a slave who chooses to waive his right to emancipation after the jubilee year and stay with his master and possible family.

I think if you are comfortable, have a good master/mistress, enjoy serving him/her, then you feel your life is sorted, sure. Hard work but rewarding and no taxes.

No Taxes. Perhaps even Libertarians might like it!

Do you think the assumption that depriving someone of their liberty, such as by slavery, automatically leads to abuses is therefore misplaced?

 

[Rival]

No Taxes. Perhaps even Libertarians might like it!

Do you think the assumption that depriving someone of their liberty, such as by slavery, automatically leads to abuses is therefore misplaced?

No. Any situation has the potential to become abusive, such as work, home, school, &c. It's in how it's handled.

 

[Laika]

No. Any situation has the potential to become abusive, such as work, home, school, &c. It's in how it's handled.

Very True sadly.

So it all comes down to who you sell yourself to? Their character, personality and ethics? There isn't a financial interest to get as much out of a person as possible?

 

[Rival]

Very True sadly.

So it all comes down to who you sell yourself to? Their character, personality and ethics? There isn't a financial interest to get as much out of a person as possible?

How are you going to make any financial gains as a slave?

 

[sun rise]

Do you believe a person can voluntarily become a slave? Do you believe there are any circumstances where it is morally right or rational for a person to do so?

Hafiz in three couplets expresses my opinion. If we meet someone who has realized the divine and Earth and become perfect, then yes. But finding such an extremely rare one and recognizing that you've found him is a most difficult matter.

 

[Laika]

How are you going to make any financial gains as a slave?

Typically, slaves were used to farm cotton, sugar and tobacco. So by getting slaves to produce them, they could sell the products on and make money from the slaves. So there is an incentive to make the slaves work as hard as possible in that instance.

 

[Rival]

Typically, slaves were used to farm cotton, sugar and tobacco. So by getting slaves to produce them, they could sell the products on and make money from the slaves. So there is an incentive to make the slaves work as hard as possible in that instance.

Well of course, but this needn't mean they are ill treated.

 

[Skwim]

Let us suppose for a moment that an adult who was of sound mind and body consented to become a slave and the property of another person.

Do you believe a person can voluntarily become a slave?

Yes. Taking "sound mind" to mean "having the capacity to think, reason, and understand for oneself. Adults by nature are considered in general to be in sound mind, but through certain circumstances can be rendered as being not in sound mind, due to intensive brain damage or other major incapacities."* I have to agree that a person of sound mind can voluntarily become a slave. After all, 1.3 - 2.2 %** of the population engage in B & D, most of whom I understand to be of sound mind.

* source
**source

.

 

[Laika]

Well of course, but this needn't mean they are ill treated.

I guess you could argue that its like having "good" vs. "bad" capitalists. So you have the ones who believe they can get as much as possible out of the slaves by working them like dogs, whilst in another case you might have those who believe you can be generous to their slaves and they will work hard, be healthy, etc.

 

[Nakosis]

Let us suppose for a moment that an adult who was of sound mind and body consented to become a slave and the property of another person.

Do you believe a person can voluntarily become a slave? Do you believe there are any circumstances where it is morally right or rational for a person to do so? Or do you claim that there is some authority to prevent a person from doing so? Does such authority or principle extend to limiting the freedom, rights or choices of adults elsewhere?

Isn't this the theme of many religious ideas? To place one's self into servitude of God?

 

[Laika]

Isn't this the theme of many religious ideas? To place one's self into servitude of God?

Arguably yes. Religion is more of a "spiritual" servitude based on controlling a person's thoughts and emotions based on the threat of punishment (whether by a community, authority or some "supernatural" circumstances such as the afterlife and hell). We just wouldn't make that connection because slavery is considered "wrong" whilst religion is tolerated. Calling religion slavery, is much the same calling religion a cult; it's true at least in part, but we don't like thinking about it that way.

I asked the question in the OP partly because my own experience with communism has meant I no longer accept freedom or rights as "natural" or "innate" in human behaviour. It's very difficult to argue for freedom when you don't think it's already "inevitable" so I'm exploring ways to think about liberalism and how to argue for it better. There are certainly other belief systems out there that assert God takes precedence over the individual, in the same way Fascism and Communism argued the State takes precedence over the individual.