Unfulfilled Prophecies in the Bible

[JerryL]

You didn't get what I was saying. Quite twisting my words. I said that differing books containing history within the Bible contain slightly differing accounts.

Incomplatable accounts which establish at least one account as wrong.

Do you discredit any American history writers just because they disagree about minor points with British ones?

I lend a weight of credence based on consensus with disparant sources. I do believe, for example, the Biblical claim that Judea was occupied and run by the Romans in the time of the NT.

No. The truth behind the Bible is theological truth. Now, the books of the Bible may certainly be trusted as historically accurate on a macro scale, but to pinpoint
exactly how many troups a person has or the color of one person's robe is demanding of the text a level of acute accuracy that it does not claim for itself.

Really? What accuracy does it claim for itself? In what passage? I thought the entire thing was "God breathed".

You agree that there are inaccuracies in the Bible. We know it's not a perfect text. Now let's see your support for what you claim to be accurate, to actually be accurate.

Bible is not wrong, it is simply that two authors writing down historical information put down two slightly varying accounts.

The BIble says that Jesus's robe was Purple. It also says the same robe was scarlet. One of those accounts is wrong. Since both are in the Bible, the Bible is wrong. It's pretty simple.

The point is in all of the instances you mentioned above that the larger story be told, not all of its minute details. Judas killed himself at Akel Dama, regardless of method; Jesus wore a robe, regardless of color.

Both stories match that Jesus wore a robe, though at least one is wrong in describing it. It's possible both are wrong in there being one at all.

That's your problem. Since they are functionally same-source (recall that most of the gospels were written by non-witnesses), while I can prove that somethings are wrong, we cannot prove that the others are right.

We can, however, see that the Bible itself is not inerrant because it contains errors. Not "God breathed" after all.

 

[Of a Happy Ending]

Incomplatable accounts which establish at least one account as wrong.

I lend a weight of credence based on consensus with disparant sources. I do believe, for example, the Biblical claim that Judea was occupied and run by the Romans in the time of the NT.

Really? What accuracy does it claim for itself? In what passage? I thought the entire thing was "God breathed".

You agree that there are inaccuracies in the Bible. We know it's not a perfect text. Now let's see your support for what you claim to be accurate, to actually be accurate.

The BIble says that Jesus's robe was Purple. It also says the same robe was scarlet. One of those accounts is wrong. Since both are in the Bible, the Bible is wrong. It's pretty simple.

Both stories match that Jesus wore a robe, though at least one is wrong in describing it. It's possible both are wrong in there being one at all.

That's your problem. Since they are functionally same-source (recall that most of the gospels were written by non-witnesses), while I can prove that somethings are wrong, we cannot prove that the others are right.

We can, however, see that the Bible itself is not inerrant because it contains errors. Not "God breathed" after all.

I like your little allusion to II Tim 3:6 there. In any case, we have to then determine what "God breathed" means. Theologians have been debating it for centuries. Is the Bible verbally inspired? Is it conceptually inspired? Are the actual words the words of God or are the truths behind the words the truths of God? How picky can we be with the words of the Bible in determining Inspiration? You have opened a huge can of worms with this one.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that the truth of the Bible is the inspired Word of God, not the words themselves. We come into a lot of problems when we begin to state that the very words are inspired by God. Rather, God had something that He wanted to say through men. The problem there is that He did it through men.

The memories of men obviously deteriorate, and what one remembers as scarlet another will remember as purple. When one remembers 10,000 another will remember 9,000. Where one adheres to the story that Judas died by hanging himself, another will inevitably accept that Judas died by falling "headlong" in a field. The gospels are compiled accounts written down from the memories of men. However, Inspiration does not apply to the words written in the gospel, rather to the truth of the story itself.

Brandon

 

[blood-lord14]

TimeCube hasn't happened yet...
anyone wonder if it counts as words of blasphemy?

 

[Yasin]

Here's the problem. You're reading literally what was figurative.

1. The claim is figurative in the sense of time. Adam and Eve were eternal creatures until eating of the forbidden fruit. At that time they became subject to death. The verse that you claim refutes the "threat" actually fulfills it. The latter part of the verse states, "then he died." Adam would not have died at all had he not taken of the fruit.

2. After partaking of the fruit, the fellowship that Adam and Eve had with God was broken, amounting to spiritual death. Romans tells us that "the wages of sin is death." If taken literally, we should all die at the first sign of sin. However, the verse refers to spiritual death. We are all separated from God, and are, therefore, spiritually dead. That life is only restored through the absolution of our sin.

3. Satan was not more accurate than God, only more scheming. He knew that Adam and Eve would not immediately physically die, but he certainly knew that breaking God's command would result in a broken fellowship, and once one has been in the immediate presence of God, to suddenly be faced with never again having that degree of fellowship must be a type of death.

There ya' go.

Brandon

What puzzles me is that when it comes to the Divinity of Jesus Christ (pbuh), "it is literal", but when other issues, which are hard to accept, are addressed "it is figurative"
Sons of God are mentioned in the OT, but are not taken literally.
Where do we stop with our interpretations?
Does it get to the point were the meanings are lost?

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[JerryL]

The memories of men obviously deteriorate, and what one remembers as scarlet another will remember as purple. When one remembers 10,000 another will remember 9,000. Where one adheres to the story that Judas died by hanging himself, another will inevitably accept that Judas died by falling "headlong" in a field.

So facts become legends; the prophet becomes God; myths of a resurrection become asserted as facts; armies of zombie-saints appear in one recollection, and some imagine wise-men giving gifts.

In fact, the Gods of genesis become the God of Exodus become the frgamented God of the NT. The blood-god of the OT because the loving God of the gospels becomes the beuocratic God of Paul.

The Bible is written by people who we know wrote wrong things. How do you decide which parts you believe anyway?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The fulfillment of prophesy can only be interpreted by a prophet.

 

[Deut 13:1]

So when Adam died at 930 years, then it was within Gods day of one thousand years.

Judaism holds that Adam gave 70 years of his life to King David, but I guess if we ignore Duet 13, then we're all right...

 

[Yasin]

Judaism holds that Adam gave 70 years of his life to King David, but I guess if we ignore Duet 13, then we're all right...

Interesting!:bounce
Jews to the rescue!:woohoo:

 

[Yasin]

The fulfillment of prophesy can only be interpreted by a prophet.

Well show us a Prophet who is ready to interpret for us, or are all the prophesies condemned to mystery?

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[mormonman]

Well show us a Prophet who is ready to interpret for us, or are all the prophesies condemned to mystery?

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

Gordon B. Hinkley-prophet, seer, and revelator. President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

 

[edvee]

I found that through reading the Bible, there were prophecies that that were not being fulfilled, i will give a example in order to start off,

A Empty Threat,

But of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Genesis 2:17

Contradicted by:

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. Genesis 5:5

Interesting, in the Bible "in the day" does not mean "that very day"

And further, according to the Bible the Satan is more accurate then God himself:

And the serpent (Satan) said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.
Genesis 3:4

Any comments?
Respectively, :bounce Yasin

Your overlooking your grammer don't confuse yourself.It wasn't till that day that God could force this rule and in that day God was simply implying that He would not live for ever as God intended for man before that incedent.

 

[edvee]

Lack of understanding the verse.God could not enforce this rule until Adam broke the command.So in that day God simply proclaimed ADAMS future which went from living forever to one day dying THOU SHAL'T SURELY DIE! SHALT is future tence.

 

[Yasin]

Lack of understanding the verse.God could not enforce this rule until Adam broke the command.So in that day God simply proclaimed ADAMS future which went from living forever to one day dying THOU SHAL'T SURELY DIE! SHALT is future tence.

But he did eat the apple, did he die that day?

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[mormonman]

But he did eat the apple, did he die that day?

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

Yes, and I'm right in two different respects. In the Garden Adam and Eve were on God's time-1 day=1000 years. So when God said "in that day", it meant 1000 years and Adam live till his 900's. Secondly, there is a spiritual death that occured. Adam and Eve walked and talked w/ God in the Garden. Once they ate the friut, they were banished from the presence of God, thus becoming spiritually dead. Pick which one you want to believe, they're both right.

 

[mormonman]

well???

 

[Popeyesays]

But he did eat the apple, did he die that day?

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

The Qur'an says that the act ofeating from the tree expelled Adam from paradise to the earth. On earth life ends and creatures die in their time.

"And we said, 'O Adam dwell, thou and thy wife, in Paradise, and eat therefrom amply as you wish; but do not draw near this tree or ye will be of the transgressors. And Satan made them backslide therefrom and drove them out from what they were in, and we said, 'Go down, one of you the enemy of the other, and in the earth there is an abode and a provision for a time.' And Adam caught certain words from 'his Lord, and He turned towards him, for He is the compassionate one easily turned. We said, 'Go down therefrom altogether and haply there may come from me a guidance, and whoso follows my guidance, no fear is theirs, nor shall they grieve. But those who misbelieve, and call our signs lies, they are the fellows of the Fire, they shall dwell therein for aye.'"
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)

"But, O Adam, dwell thou and thy wife in Paradise and eat from whence ye will, but draw not nigh unto this tree or ye will be of the unjust.'
But Satan whispered to them to display to them what was kept back from them of their shame, and he said, 'Your Lord has only forbidden you this tree lest ye should be twain angels, or should become of the immortals;' and he swore to them both, 'Verily, I am unto you a sincere adviser;' and he beguiled them by deceit, and when they twain tasted of the tree, their shame was shown them, and they began to stitch upon themselves the leaves of the garden. And their Lord called unto them, 'Did I not forbid you from that tree there, and say to you, Verily, Satan is to you an open foe?' They said, 'O our Lord! we have wronged ourselves- and if Thou dost not forgive us and have mercy on us, we shall surely be of those who are lost!' He said, 'Go ye down, one of you to the other a foe; but for you in the earth there is an abode, and a provision for a season.' He said, 'Therein shall ye live and therein shall ye die, from it shall ye be brought forth.'"
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 7 - Al Aaraf)

Regars,
Scott

 

[Ochepius]

The Book Of Revelation Is Unfolding As We Speak. I Trust And Have Endless Faith In The Importance Of What John Had To Say About The Future. Together We Can Attempt To Interpret The Prophecy. They Are In The Reach Of All Who Wish To Grasp Them.

 

[Ochepius]

The Grasping Part May Be Harder Then You Expect, Since The Bible Is Vastly Made Up Of Metaphores, Hidden Symbolic Meaning, And Non-Similes Used As Similes. The Book Of Revelation Is A Prime Example Of This. Many Prophecys Have, And Will Continue To Be Fulfilled As Time Goes On. Many Of Them Will Be Missed If We Dont Look Deeply In To The Clues That Have Been Given. Biblical Prophecy Written As A Perfect Definition Of The Events Forseen Or Witnessed Is a Rarity, And Most Of The Time Are Left To The Reader To Understand. If It Was Not Done This Way, Biblical Prophecy Would Not Be Revelations To Us At All When They Occur.

 

[may]

A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place revelation 1;1

(Amos 3:7) For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.."​

(Revelation 22:6) And he said to me: "These words are faithful and true; yes, Jehovah the God of the inspired expressions of the prophets sent his angel forth to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place................... it seems that things are revealed only to his people , so the question is, who really is the faithful slave, that is being given great responsibility in the last days.
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings. matthew 24;45-47 those who have insight will understand,

Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand; so that I said: "O my lord, what will be the final part of these things?"​

And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understandDaniel 12;8-10

(Daniel 11:33) And as regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many. And they will certainly be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for [some] days.​

(Daniel 12:3) "And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever.

 

[Booko]

The Grasping Part May Be Harder Then You Expect, Since The Bible Is Vastly Made Up Of Metaphores, Hidden Symbolic Meaning, And Non-Similes Used As Similes. The Book Of Revelation Is A Prime Example Of This. Many Prophecys Have, And Will Continue To Be Fulfilled As Time Goes On. Many Of Them Will Be Missed If We Dont Look Deeply In To The Clues That Have Been Given. Biblical Prophecy Written As A Perfect Definition Of The Events Forseen Or Witnessed Is a Rarity, And Most Of The Time Are Left To The Reader To Understand. If It Was Not Done This Way, Biblical Prophecy Would Not Be Revelations To Us At All When They Occur.

Well, not only that, but imagine what would happen if prophecies were all clear. It would come down to some place and time where someone was supposed to appear, and you'd get a million people trying to cram into the spot, claiming to be "the one."

sheesh, what a mess...