Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[2ndpillar]

Any religious claims as to what you believe concerning God and what you call Yeshua. There is a lack of provence in scripture to support any of the variations of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. All these beliefs only have a basis in "faith" and not a consistent foundation in scripture.

So, says you, whose god is science and dogmatic opinions, which changes daily. You have yet to point out any inconsistency in what I believe, or even what I believe. It may be that I have a greater insight with regard to science and scripture than your parroted views.

As for the provenance (origin) of Judaism, Islam and Christianity, in the form of the "book", referenced by Islam, the Jews and Christianity, well, that would be with Genesis 1, the creation of Adam, and is basically the same with all three religions you mentioned. As for sects, the "Christians" stand on Peter and Paul, in which Paul is a predominate false prophet, and the foundation of their faith. As for the Muslims, their 8th & 9th century narrative was written by the Persians, written in and around Persia, and the contents of the Koran, supposedly produced by way of an angel of light, was purloined from Persian, Christian, and the Jewish writings. As for science, the father of science, Newton, calculated the start of the 7th day, the 7th millennium, the day of judgment, as starting around the mid 2030s, but then, his information was probably based on the Gregorian calendar, which is a false starting point. Based on the time of death of Herod the Great, it should be off by around 6 or 7 years.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Shoghi Effendi, translated the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
He went to England to study English so He could better translate the Writings from Persian and Arabic into English.

From his studies Shoghi Effendi determined that King James English was the best form to portray Persian and Arabic to English speakers.

Apparently Persian and Arabic have a form of poetic prose that is hard to portray to English speakers. King James English must in a small way convey some of that poetic prose experienced by Persian and Arabic speakers.

Shoghi Effendi said that the future may see different translations.

I know that everyone does not like the KJ English, but I like it, although sometimes it is a little difficult to understand what He was saying..

Baha died in the late1900 century. The KJ bible was written in the 17th century (1611 A.D.). England didn't teach or use 17th century English in the late 19th century.

 

[shunyadragon]

So, says you, whose god is science and dogmatic opinions, which changes daily. You have yet to point out any inconsistency in what I believe, or even what I believe. It may be that I have a greater insight with regard to science and scripture than your parroted views.

God is not remotely addressed in science by definition Your emotional aggressive abusive attitude is not constructive . You misrepresent science. Science does not change every day. I responded to this false view of science, The foundation of science does not change. What changes is when additional information advances the knowledge of science in understanding the nature of our physical existence,

As for the provenance (origin) of Judaism, Islam and Christianity, in the form of the "book", referenced by Islam, the Jews and Christianity, well, that would be with Genesis 1, the creation of Adam, and is basically the same with all three religions you mentioned. As for sects, the "Christians" stand on Peter and Paul, in which Paul is a predominate false prophet, and the foundation of their faith. As for the Muslims, their 8th & 9th century narrative was written by the Persians, written in and around Persia, and the contents of the Koran, supposedly produced by way of an angel of light, was purloined from Persian, Christian, and the Jewish writings. As for science, the father of science, Newton, calculated the start of the 7th day, the 7th millennium, the day of judgment, as starting around the mid 2030s, but then, his information was probably based on the Gregorian calendar, which is a false starting point, based on the time of death of Herod the Great, and is off by around 6 or 7 years.

Yes without provence in basic English language and known academic historical and archaeological evidence,. ALL of the above "Books" are without provenance in authorship, time and origin.Both Islam and Christianity refer back to the Pentateuch, which is without provenance of authorship, time and place of anything before 600 BCE.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Shoghi Effendi, translated the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
He went to England to study English so He could better translate the Writings from Persian and Arabic into English.

From his studies Shoghi Effendi determined that King James English was the best form to portray Persian and Arabic to English speakers.

Apparently Persian and Arabic have a form of poetic prose that is hard to portray to English speakers. King James English must in a small way convey some of that poetic prose experienced by Persian and Arabic speakers.

Shoghi Effendi said that the future may see different translations.

I know that everyone does not like the KJ English, but I like it, although sometimes it is a little difficult to understand what He was saying..

Baha died in the late1900 century. The KJ bible was written in the 17th century (1611 A.D.). England didn't teach or use 17th century English in the late 19th century.

 

[2ndpillar]

What changes is when additional information advances the knowledge of science in understanding the nature of our physical existence,

Well, the underlying nature of science seems to be changing daily. Now we have a real Universe, and an unreal Universe. Next time science will be telling you that NASA is funding a transporter and the next step in computers will be computers working in an unreal Universe. Science apparently doesn't understand the nature of "our physical existence". They apparently don't understand the "god particle", or how to look at the physical Universe, versus the unreal Universe. Was Bohr correct, or was Einstein correct? I don't think you know? Your "science" doesn't know either.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes without provence in basic English language and known academic historical and archaeological evidence,. ALL of the above "Books" are without provenance in authorship, time and origin.Both Islam and Christianity refer back to the Pentateuch, which is without provenance of authorship, time and place of anything before 600 BCE.

What do you think your provenance of 600 BC is? The Epic of Gilgamesh, from Ur, the home of Abraham, which includes Adam (first man) and the Flood, goes back to 2100 BC. Old Testament - Wikipedia

 

[Elihoenai]

Simply said, according to all Christian denominations, God is the same in both OT and NT and does not change. If God ordered sacrifices (Leviticus 4:35, 5:10, 16:1-6) and Jesus claimed that nothing will ever change from the Law, then either the OT, or Paul is lying. Jesus could never had told Paul, as he claimed, that the Law is needless and evil. Whether you accept it or not, is irrelevant.
As for the "Inner/Esoteric and Outer/Exoteric meaning" is just a propaganda to justify the huge contradictions in the Bible. Apologists are simply trying to find excuses to justify their knowingly false conclusion. See message #1173

How you are living your life determines what you see in the Bible. If you are Living/Dying a Carnal Life/Death you will see Carnality in the Bible. In Carnality it's Impossible to Reconcile what appears to you contradictions. This means a Non-Christian cannot Really understand the Bible apart from the Dead Letter Literal and Historical Interpretation that is accessible to all. In the same way, so-called Carnal Christians cannot Really understand the Bible.

I Am Christian Gnostic.


Gnosticism

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός, romanized: gnōstikós, Koine Greek: [ɣnostiˈkos], 'having knowledge') is a collection of religious ideas and systems that coalesced in the late 1st century AD among Jewish and early Christian sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) above the proto-orthodox teachings, traditions, and authority of religious institutions.

Gnosticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gnosticism, the Enduring Heresy

 

[Ajax]

How you are living your life determines what you see in the Bible. If you are Living/Dying a Carnal Life/Death you will see Carnality in the Bible. In Carnality it's Impossible to Reconcile what appears to you contradictions. This means a Non-Christian cannot Really understand the Bible apart from the Dead Letter Literal and Historical Interpretation that is accessible to all. In the same way, so-called Carnal Christians cannot Really understand the Bible.

I couldn't disagree more. There are good and righteous people who are atheists. And there are religious people who fully accept the Bible and are horrid. Also there is nothing to understand beyond what is written in the Bible. After all Christianity teaches that “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." and "the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God".

 

[wellwisher]

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man is more connected to instinct and impulse and mutant variations thereof. He is more reactionary to his senses. If he sees a pretty girl, he turns on, and becomes a dog running his game. He is not going take a night off and not drink, but his friends show up with some beer, he will drink.

The spirit is more connected to the thinking man. He often inhibits the natural flow of his inner natural man, so he can question his motivations. Why so I do that, and is there a better way? If I do that, what does the other person feel? How could I act, so I can be true to my deterministic natural self, while sharing only positive things with others?

The natural man says, "you think too much. Life should be fun, so let us go chase some skirts and have a few beers. You can think all you want tomorrow." That was the story of my younger life. Like Jesus, I enjoyed the company of the natural sinners; balance. I would like to think I also helped to balance them. I learned not to discuss things with those who did not want to know; do not preach, but try to teach.

 

[Elihoenai]

I couldn't disagree more. There are good and righteous people who are atheists. And there are religious people who fully accept the Bible and are horrid. Also there is nothing to understand beyond what is written in the Bible. After all Christianity teaches that “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." and "the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God".

Romans 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 14:14

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


People have different Standards of Righteousness. What one person Deems as Righteous is Sickening Wickedness to another. Everybody is not adhering to the same Moral Standards Within or Without Christendom.

Only those Reckoning something to be Sickening Wickedness to that person it is Sickening Wickedness. Sin is Not Imputed where it is Not Acknowledged as such.

 

[2ndpillar]

Romans 10:3

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 14:14

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.


People have different Standards of Righteousness. What one person Deems as Righteous is Sickening Wickedness to another. Everybody is not adhering to the same Moral Standards Within or Without Christendom.

Only those Reckoning something to be Sickening Wickedness to that person it is Sickening Wickedness. Sin is Not Imputed where it is Not Acknowledged as such.

Using the quips from the false prophet Paul is not going to make your case. Here is a good quip from Paul.

Romans 8:20-21 "But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but the sin which indwells in me."...evil is present in me".

Paul is born of the devil, and subsequently sins (1 John 3:8). "the one who practices sin is of the devil".

 

[Trailblazer]

In Carnality it's Impossible to Reconcile what appears to you contradictions. This means a Non-Christian cannot Really understand the Bible apart from the Dead Letter Literal and Historical Interpretation that is accessible to all. In the same way, so-called Carnal Christians cannot Really understand the Bible.

What contradictions?
What do you mean by Carnality?
What is a Carnal Christian?
Why can't a non-Christian be non-carnal?

 

[Elihoenai]

What contradictions?
What do you mean by Carnality?
What is a Carnal Christian?
Why can't a non-Christian be non-carnal?

Romans 8:13

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


1) The Contradictions, apparently, between the Old Testament and New Testament that so-called Christians obfuscate by saying that that Prophecy has already been fulfilled and that that other Prophecy is for the future. Another example, that is old and not applicable to Christians. And another, that part of the New Testament is only for Israel and not for Gentiles.

2) Carnality is Works of the Flesh. For example, Recreational Sex.

3) From my Christian Gnostic perspective there is no such thing as a Carnal Christian. So-called Christians believe you can be Carnal and still be a Christian. Roman Catholicism, the Mother of so-called Christianity, is Carnal Religion.

4) A Non-Christian cannot be Non-Carnal because Real Christians are Spiritual. A Real Christian is Identified by what they Practice and Not the Label they place on themselves. There are Misleading Product Labels on the Shelves.