Unbelievable

[Nietzsche]

True, nothing happened here for a long time, when it did, only one species in millions developed intelligence, that's on a planet that was already extraordinarily lucky.

Lucky in what way? Being an average sized planet, orbiting an average star, within an average solar system, in an average tiny, tiny portion of the Milky Way Galaxy? If that's your definition of "luck", it might be the most meaningless word conceivable by human minds.

The size of the universe does not make it inevitable that this happened twice, it seems like it's the uncomfortable implications that are the only thing that demands that it did.

The size of the universe demands that these conditions have the oppertunity to happen elsewhere. To say that they wouldn't shows a poor grasp of how incomprehensibly vast and ancient the universe is. What is it, 14 or so Billion years? Fourteen million-million years. More than that many stars in the Milky Way alone.

Even assuming life is freakishly rare, that would still mean there's more intelligent in the universe than there are grains of sand on the earth.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Lucky in what way? Being an average sized planet, orbiting an average star, within an average solar system, in an average tiny, tiny portion of the Milky Way Galaxy? If that's your definition of "luck", it might be the most meaningless word conceivable by human minds.


The size of the universe demands that these conditions have the oppertunity to happen elsewhere. To say that they wouldn't shows a poor grasp of how incomprehensibly vast and ancient the universe is. What is it, 14 or so Billion years? Fourteen million-million years. More than that many stars in the Milky Way alone.

Even assuming life is freakishly rare, that would still mean there's more intelligent in the universe than there are grains of sand on the earth.

It's not average, it's an inner rocky planet, in a near perfectly circular orbit, with a massive single satellite- a practically a binary system stabilizing seasons, with a rotating iron core deflecting cosmic rays and regenerating it's surface and atmosphere, in an exceptionally well ordered solar system (most are chaotic multiples) in a very hospitable part of a very hospitable galaxy.. that's barely scratching the surface

I think you'll find that the number of stars in the universe is about the same as grains of sand on earth, as, once again, the Bible predicted.

 

[Nietzsche]

It's not average, it's an inner rocky planet, in a near perfectly circular orbit

Pftahahahahaha. Ahahahahaha. ahahahahaha.

with a massive single satellite- a practically a binary system stabilizing seasons

I'm sorry, what? Stable seasons? If you want to see stable seasons, look at Venus.

with a rotating iron core deflecting cosmic rays and regenerating it's surface and atmosphere

Venus. Mars used to be. Mars is older, and didn't have another planet smack into it to refuel its core.

in an exceptionally well ordered solar system (most are chaotic multiples)

By what possible definition?

in a very hospitable part of a very hospitable galaxy.. that's barely scratching the surface

Very hospitable. Yes. That's why we have regular, biosphere-destroying impacts, right?

I think you'll find that the number of stars in the universe is about the same as grains of sand on earth, as, once again, the Bible predicted.

And you would be wrong.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Pftahahahahaha. Ahahahahaha. ahahahahaha.


I'm sorry, what? Stable seasons? If you want to see stable seasons, look at Venus.


Venus. Mars used to be. Mars is older, and didn't have another planet smack into it to refuel its core.


By what possible definition?



Very hospitable. Yes. That's why we have regular, biosphere-destroying impacts, right?


And you would be wrong.

A value of 0 is a circular orbit, values between 0 and 1 form an elliptical orbit, .... of the Earth's orbit is currently about 0.0167

Most systems are not nearly so ordered, when you look in the sky, even with a moderate amateur telescope, you will find that most stars have companions,

Venus. Mars used to be. Mars is older, and didn't have another planet smack into it to refuel its core.

'xactly

Venus does not have any seasons to speak of,

we wouldn't be here without impacts, remember?

 

[Nietzsche]

A value of 0 is a circular orbit, values between 0 and 1 form an elliptical orbit, .... of the Earth's orbit is currently about 0.0167

Most systems are not nearly so ordered, when you look in the sky, even with a moderate amateur telescope, you will find that most stars have companions,

You said perfectly circular. We both know what a perfect circle is. If you did not mean a perfect circle, cop to it and we'll drop it.

'xactly

Venus does not have any seasons to speak of,

we wouldn't be here without impacts, remember?

You were just saying that the Earth has stable seasons and was remarkably hospitable, and now you're saying that it is the violent shifts in weather and the catastrophic, biosphere-crushing impacts are required events?

Pick one. You don't get to have both sides of the argument. These are mutually exclusive things. Either the planet is a special snowflake(and ignore everything that says it isn't) or that we're not remarkable in any way but knowing there is life here.

We've barely reached out past our own Moon, there could be life on Europa. If there were, what would your argument change to then?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

You said perfectly circular. We both know what a perfect circle is. If you did not mean a perfect circle, cop to it and we'll drop it.



You were just saying that the Earth has stable seasons and was remarkably hospitable, and now you're saying that it is the violent shifts in weather and the catastrophic, biosphere-crushing impacts are required events?

Pick one. You don't get to have both sides of the argument. These are mutually exclusive things. Either the planet is a special snowflake(and ignore everything that says it isn't) or that we're not remarkable in any way but knowing there is life here.

We've barely reached out past our own Moon, there could be life on Europa. If there were, what would your argument change to then?

[] circular- read what I said, I did not edit it,

yes, being hospitable is walking a remarkably fine line, Venus and Mars are proof
our path here is an incredible intricate maze, staggeringly improbably by chance, that's the whole point

Yes, find life on Europa discussing these questions, or any intelligent signal anywhere, and my argument would change, I'd concede humanity is not special- that's a perfectly falsifiable position

If we turned out to be utterly alone, would that change your position?

 

[Nietzsche]

[] circular- read what I said, I did not edit it,

Nearly-perfectly-circular is what you said.

If we turned out to be utterly alone, would that change your position?

It would severely complicate it, and it would make me question why so massive an existence if you're just going to utterly waste 99.9999999999999999999999...(several billion digits later)..999% of it.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Nearly-perfectly-circular is what you said.


It would severely complicate it, and it would make me question why so massive an existence if you're just going to utterly waste 99.9999999999999999999999...(several billion digits later)..999% of it.

waste what? remember that the entire universe self extracted from a tiny seed, it's size was determined by mere information, not God's budget.

I would rather question, why God would create a tiny Truman show reality, when for the same 'price', he could create a vast awe inspiring cosmos for us to marvel and explore?

 

[Smart_Guy]

I think there is nothing to prove that yes there is, nor no there is not. I think every thing said in this matter is based on wild thoughts and opinions. I think tomato is vegetable.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So, I voted yes, but I feel the need to clarify. The universe (all universes, really) is so incredibly vast, that I think it would be exceptionally egotistical of us ...

I would argue that if there is hubris, this hubris underlies the presumption that we were somehow inevitable.