Toxic Faith

[Quiddity]

But still, these ideologies aren't perfect. They were thought of by imperfect people. There is still room for improvement.

Can't we always say that?

 

[Radio Frequency X]

That's where the fallacy is, as far as I'm concerned. While, yes, we are responsible for how we approach and reflect God, I'm developing the theological opinion that Salvation is more humanity-based than it is individual-based. That's not a very popular stand to take, but it certaintly takes a stab at answering your next question.

Does the Church do a good job of representing God's agenda? I suppose that would depend upon what one thinks "a good job" entails. I think that the best answer is, "sometimes yes, sometimes no." But we have hope, and we trust in the revelation and help of the Holy Spirit.

I agree somewhat with this statement, insofar as I think that some other people are far too concerned with how I choose to express my morals and ethics, as those expressions define me as "good" or "Christian" or "religious." That's a judgment call we are not to make about anyone other than ourselves. But, individually, we should have a concern for how our own expressions affect others, and how well those expressions represent God and the Body of Christ. In this way, our self-watchdogging keeps us responsible to the herd, but does not keep others responsible -- that's their own job to do.

My concern is with those ideals that fuel the toxic beliefs and behaviors that have become so common amongst religious folk (I suppose they always were common). I like your humble position on judgment and I'm not sure how our differences would actually effect our behavior. We are both community minded, we are both humble with regard to our judgments, and we both desire a personal relationship with God.

In the 21 beliefs of a toxic faith that I posted in the OP, I don't see them in what I'm hearing from you or Victor.

I suppose where I differ from the two of you is that I am not a part of any one religious tradition and therefore don't have to defend anyone one dogma or institution. My beliefs are quite basic. I don't understand why people need religion or advanced cosmologies, including beliefs about salvation, afterlives, and spiritual beings. All I have is my personal relationship with god and the belief that god wants to promote love and life and healthy relationships between us and him, and between one another. I am agnostic or superstitious toward the rest.

 

[sojourner]

My concern is with those ideals that fuel the toxic beliefs and behaviors that have become so common amongst religious folk (I suppose they always were common). I like your humble position on judgment and I'm not sure how our differences would actually effect our behavior. We are both community minded, we are both humble with regard to our judgments, and we both desire a personal relationship with God.

In the 21 beliefs of a toxic faith that I posted in the OP, I don't see them in what I'm hearing from you or Victor.

I suppose where I differ from the two of you is that I am not a part of any one religious tradition and therefore don't have to defend anyone one dogma or institution. My beliefs are quite basic. I don't understand why people need religion or advanced cosmologies, including beliefs about salvation, afterlives, and spiritual beings. All I have is my personal relationship with god and the belief that god wants to promote love and life and healthy relationships between us and him, and between one another. I am agnostic or superstitious toward the rest.

You're in the good company of many, many people. I maintain that it's not particularly religion we need, but people -- family. Religion provides a focus for how our relationships with others can reflect our relationship with God, and can both actualize and result from our relationship with God. In that sense, religion -- however one defines or practices it -- is a necessary part of our journey toward God. We can't "get there" alone. We have to "get there" together.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz???? Are we so boring you fell asleep whilst typing? Joking!

Yes. Yes you are. Now become more interesting. I demand it. You must follow my word and what I say, because I am God's twin brother. Muahahaha



So as for saying more:

Number 21 struck me. We cannot become like God because our true nature is Spirit which is part of God. So in essence, we already have God within us. The body is a temple of God. The one about money made me laugh...what will God do with money? Everything is already his! Heh heh. There is no Christian God or Hindu God etc. There is only one God whom we all pray to in different ways and whom we call by different names. As for no. 7 I do believe that when we do good "works" we will attain God faster and as for no. 20 I do believe that God wants us to be happy.

I agree we are god. We are made up of the same "stuff" - the image and likeness of God. Good and bad "works" are only relative terms, and only exist in a relative universe. God just is. There is no good nor bad, up or down, left or right for God. God is all. I believe all God wants is for us to experience and through experiences we re-member that we are God (re-member - join God again). There is no "only way" to do this. Everyone does this at their own pace, through their own methods, and everyone gets there. There is no consequence for anything. There is thus no hell because there is only one place to go.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

I would think that the belief that "God wants one to be happy" would become toxic when one takes that belief so seriously that if he or she is unhappy, he or she questions that God loves them, or exists, etc.

I would think the belief that "one can become like God" would become toxic when one, similar to above, becomes disappointed that they are not becoming "perfect," or become self-rightous and condemning, etc.

Precisely.

 

[PureX]

I think it's unfair to call religion "toxic". And I'll tell you why.

Religions are just traditional courses of action based on some theological concept of the nature and truth of our own existence. They employ myth, ritual, dogma, rules, practices and disciplines to help people who hold to a specific theology to live according to what they believe. Understood in this sense, religions are essentially a collection of tools designed to help one achieve a theological goal. And tools are just tools. They either work or they don't for an intended purpose, and if they don't work, we shouldn't be using them.

I really think that the argument, here, is not with the tools (religion), but with the theological goals they're being employed to achieve. Theology is a branch of philosophy dealing specifically with the concept of deity, spirituality, and planes of existence beyond those we can now experience or recognize. When the practice of religion becomes "toxic" it's because the theological goal that the religion is based on is dysfunctional. This doesn't necessarily mean the theology is 'wrong', it means that it's having a functionally negative effect on the practitioner, on those around the practitioner, or on both. Perhaps the practitioner is using the wrong 'tools' to achieve the goal, or more likely, the practitioner is trying to force everyone else toward his chosen goal, and is disregarding the fact that other people have other goals of their own.

In my mind, the root cause of this dysfunction, and of most all other human dysfunction is essentially dishonesty. And it's specifically dishonesty about the natural limitations of the human condition. People's behaviors become dysfunctional when they forget or ignore the natural limits of their own existence as human beings, and instead begin to act as though they have more power, more authority, and more insight than they actually have the ability to possess. We humans are easily seduced by the idea that we know more than we actually know, and that we can (and have a right to) force the world to comply with our imagined superior vision of it. Theologies are particularly susceptible to this sort of hubris because they deal specifically with concepts of transcendent power and authority that are grounded in nothing but speculation and need. Given such inviting conditions, it would be hard to keep hubris out of theology, I would think.

In the end I don't see what we can really do about any of this. Perhaps better education about what theology is, and what the "rules" of theological speculation should be, would help some, but I suspect that most people would just ignore them as they ignore them, now. There is a deep need and desire in people, born in the fear of our own profound ignorance, for a divine manifestation of ourselves. And I really don't see any way of stopping people from creating this divine manifestation of self in their minds, and then using it to rationalize and justify dysfunctional behavior. Such is itself a part of the human condition.

As the bible says: "we are wonderfully and frightfully made".